HMRC - CT600 form / software

[Hippogriff]

My own home is part of a much larger building and there is the concept of a Service Charge. The Service Charge is paid by us to us - effectively - as there is a Ltd. company set up that we are Directors of. Really, the Service Charge amounts to us paying the Buildings Insurance as a single policy. So, in the 2014 - 2015 tax year we paid £740 into an account, then paid £740 out of that account for a Buildings Insurance policy.

That was it.

Both HMRC and Companies House now want us to fill in tax returns for corporation tax.

I do self-assessment for HMRC so I figured this wouldn't be hard. I logged onto the HMRC website and ordered an activation code which then duly arrived today. I log back in and activate the corporation tax service. This is great because it says it's suitable for both HMRC and Companies House.

However, the first thing it made me do, which was completely different to self-assessment, was download 'the software'... which is basically just a PDF that you open up and follow a 10-step process with to give it the correct security credentials... then start filling it in.

However, I was very shortly stuck as it's asking me for things I don't know about the company - namely something about a Company Registration Number Prefix - choices being NI, SC or R0 - but nothing I have, nor anything I can see on the Companies House website, shows anything regarding such a prefix. The second thing it wants is an Authentication Code - which I've also never had sent to me. From my reading of this it seems that this is another code I might be able to request and then, that too, is posted out to me!

All of this rigmarole is to basically arrive at a conclusion that there is no tax to pay as we are not a real company.

Does anyone know or have experience of this idea - can I just phone up HMRC and say - "look, we're not a real company - we are just a non-profit making freehold management company and all we do is share out the expense of the annual buildings insurance policy"?

It seems that your 'company' can go into a dormant status, but not in the first year... but I'm struggling to wade through this stuff.

[Gordon999]

You seem to be a "ltd company" with duties to administer the service charge for your block of leasehold flats and your company does not trade with external parties for profit.

If you go to www.companieshouse.gov.uk website , you can search for the listing number and address details of your company ( including the Company Number , names of the directors and final dates for making mandatory annual returns to Companies House.) If you miss the deadline dates for paying your company's annual fee, making the mandatory returns , fines will be applied by CH ).

The HMRC tax return is for a company to declare its annual profit and for paying annual corporation tax. Since your company is non-profit making , you can declare the company is responsible for service charge administration for block of flats and is non-profit making. HMRC will probably waive your requirement to making tax return for future years after seeing the first return.

If you find difficulty to make the returns to CH and HMRC, then pay for some local book-keeping company to assist you for one or two years.

[Hippogriff]

Your first paragraph describes our simplistic situation, yes.

We can get all the information from the Companies House website except for the things I mention, which we seen to need to proceed with the CT600 form.

These things seem intertwined, but am I going to need to send off, somehow (it's not clear how), for another(!) code they'll physically post to me?

We can't (strongly don't want to) employ anyone to do this as that would cost us more money which we'd need to collect and pay... therefore the simple act of reporting our position would double our effort, from 1 annual activity to 2. Daft.

[Gordon999]

Does this link show the form you are required to submit ?

https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...short-2008.pdf

You can enter the(1) company name and (2) company number and (3) just state in box space on the front page " the company owns the freehold for a block of flats , does not receive any ground rent income and is a non-profit company". Enter 0 against the income box and leave other boxes blank and sign as director.

I suggest that you open a company bank account ( marked client account for the service charges ) and each year collect the annual service charge levy to cover share of building insurance and funds for repairs etc and for save up for 5 yearly external painting etc.

[Hippogriff]

Gordon999 - thank you for the help.

I've been advised - by the HMRC website - to download the 'software' which is the CT600.pdf file... that you then need to 'trust' and now - at the top in Adobe Reader - it says "Certified by Edward Tucker" who I gather in an HMRC employee.

Your CT600 (Short) looks interesting to me, but I'm curious why the HMRC website didn't point me to that. Maybe it's because I said I wanted to do it all on-line?

Anyway, on the CT600, what I have in front of me is this... this is my stumbling block...

CT600-1.jpg

The prefix appears to be a choice between NI, SC or R0? This detail is not shown on the Companies House website (at least that I can see).

The Authentication Code must come from Companies House, but I've not yet found out how to get that yet.

HMRC wrote to me saying they wanted a Corporation Tax return filed by the end of May and the Companies House website says "Next Return Due: 25/06/2015" so it's obviously something I (we!) need to be doing... but none of us is currently sure how to get past the blockers we have.

BTW - we do have a separate account set up for the buildings insurance monies and, yes, we've already sat down and talked about how we'd submit monies for a sinking fund. Hopefully that bit is (the only bit) looking good.

[jpkeates]

If you're a limited company in England or Wales you probably don't have a prefix.
You might find that the CRN needs to be increased to 8 characters by a leading zero.

You'd be better off not doing this online, as the simple paper form will take a few minutes for the type of business you have.

If you pay an accountant to do your own tax return, they might do this for a few quid - which you would again process through the business.

And (while this is obviously bad advice) your chances of being sued, fined or even being contacted by companies house if you don't complete the return and file it are, in my limited experience, close to zero.

[Gordon999]

Late submission of filings to Companies House will cost 150 pds ( 1-30 days late ) and 350 pds ( 60-90 days late ) so you need to submit the filing to CH before the cutoff date. . Our company was billed with a fine very quickly after missing the deadline so the fines must be computer generated.

https://www.gov.uk/prepare-file-annu...pany/penalties

Late submission of tax returns to HMRC will incur a fine - 100pds ( for 1-90 days ?)

[Hippogriff]

Don't worry, I'm going to get this done... but I'm wading through the process, starting from a knowledge base of nil.

If I download, print out and fill in the CT600 (Short) form, can I use that for HMRC and Companies House? Or if I follow that route, do I need different things for the different returns? The idea of on-line was appealing because it seemed like it was a one-stop shop... however, for it to be useful you have to be able to make progress in the form you're being asked to fill in.

[Hippogriff]

Companies House wrote back to me and asked for the company number (which I'd clearly already given them in the email) and have now said I need to register for WebFiling and request an Authentication Code - which should arrive, by post, within 5 working days.

They also said that I do not need a Prefix, as jpkeates said.

Every time you write an email to Companies House you get an automated reply from the PostMaster saying it was "undeliverable" but then they respond anyway.

So, I wait...

[Hippogriff]

I got an Authentication Code from Companies House but then got stuck inside form CT600 which had a hard-coded accounting period end date of 31 May 2015, which is not correct and which you can't change by more than 7 days. If you try to then it says "this service is not for you".

So I phoned up HMRC and they have advised me to abandon my efforts to complete CT600 and, instead, write in to them begging them to consider the company dormant. No guarantee that they will, they said, but my best option right now. They also extended the deadline by 1 month. They said if they don't agree then I should go back and try to use form CT600 (Short).

[Hippogriff]

This - literally - took months to achieve, but HMRC have finally written to me saying that the Company can be considered Dormant for Corporation Tax purposes, until 2020. A result, but not without them trying to hit us with a £100 penalty even though they were assessing the case at the time. A positive outcome, but I feel it could be simpler and less time-consuming.