Why does sex education fail so often?

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    Originally posted by remyrobson View Post
    I feel sorry for these girls, their lives are not in their control.
    So who is in control, according to you?
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      Sorry to interrupt, I thought it was our job as parents to be in control......

      Comment


        Originally posted by Izzycam View Post
        Sorry to interrupt, I thought it was our job as parents to be in control......
        Yes, except some don't exercise any (cf. 13-y-o Alfie's).
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          Originally posted by Izzycam View Post
          Sorry to interrupt, I thought it was our job as parents to be in control......
          Parents should be in control, but whether they actually are in control is another matter. That was the question Jeffrey asked.

          My view is that there is a lethal combination of a failure of responsibility, morality and leadership by example on the part of many parents throughout their childrens' lives, combined with a prevailing cuture of rampant individualism, hopelessness, promiscuity and relationship short-termism.

          But why? At bottom, it seems to me that young people often suffer from a deep lack of self-respect, which, ironically, is masked with exaggerated demands for "respeck[sic]" from others. Young men are particularly prone to this, and seek to make up for this insecurity through displays of sexual prowess (ie: having multiple concurrent and consecutive girlfriends), which, of course, leads to inappropriate pregnancies with girls with whom they have little or no long term plans. I believe these feelings of insecurity and nihlism have their roots in the emasculation of an entire generation of men through the destruction of Britain's blue collar industries (especially manufacturing and mining) - in short, up until the 80s, most working class men would have been in gainful and, just as importantly, tiring full-time employment from the age of 16, which, incidentally, often carried along with it an entire collective culture and a close-knit community. However, nowadays, the work on offer for such sectors of society is as low paid as ever, but it is also frequently useless, demeaning and highly fragmented rather than collective and thus, when they can get by just as easily on the dole (plus a little petty crime on the side) such work holds little attraction for them. A life of drinking Stella, playing PS2 and getting a series of identikit "Donnas" up the duff awaits for these men-children.

          To some extent some or all of these problems permeate the UK in general, but they are especially prevalent, or at least manifest themselves most seriously, amongst the Jeremy Kyle classes.

          Given that these problems were rooted in Thatcher's policies, I find it rather ironic that "Dave" Cameron is constantly banging on about "Broken Britain"
          Health Warning


          I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

          All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

          Comment


            Also the fact that anyone of 5 others could be the father and not just this one 13 year old definitely means she isn't in control.....slaaaaaaaaaaaaag
            My views and posts are based on my opinion and any advice given is just that, advice. If you decide to act on any advice given it is with the full knowledge that I am not perfect and anything I say could be wrong!

            Comment


              Originally posted by Sorrel View Post
              Also the fact that anyone of 5 others could be the father and not just this one 13 year old definitely means she isn't in control.....slaaaaaaaaaaaaag

              Hopefully the correct one can be identified, further, hopefully he will be 18+, get charged with rape and pay for the child's upbriging.
              Altho it is more likely that the nanny state will povide a babysitting service for child, whilst parents are sent on a fully paid "safari" trip to "improve their chanves in life" ?
              A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
              W.Churchill

              Comment


                That's not a very nice word to say!

                Comment


                  I completely agree, but neither is it a very nice thing to be!
                  A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                  W.Churchill

                  Comment


                    apparently they had the dna test and the results are "Chavs"
                    Best Regards

                    PI Guy

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by PI Guy View Post
                      apparently they had the dna test and the results are "Chavs"
                      So society is split into the chavs and the chav-nots.
                      JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                      1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                      2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                      3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                      4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by Izzycam View Post
                        That's not a very nice word to say!
                        How else would you describe her? Seems like an apt description to me.

                        On a lighter note, well for me anyway, you can bet on the outcome of the DNA test. Although sadly the odds aren't in favour either way. See here;

                        http://www.paddypower.com/bet?action...Daddy&crea=top
                        My views and posts are based on my opinion and any advice given is just that, advice. If you decide to act on any advice given it is with the full knowledge that I am not perfect and anything I say could be wrong!

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Sorrel View Post
                          How else would you describe her? Seems like an apt description to me.
                          I have to disagree with you here.

                          It is not an apt description, since it implies that having sex with lots of different boys/men is a lifestyle this young girl has actively and freely chosen. Her age would suggest that it is not a free 'choice' in that she can not have made it in an informed way. It may in part have been a response to the 'raging hormones' to which jta referred earlier, so animal instinct, perhaps. However, we do not tend to call animals 'slags' when they obey their hormones and whatever else it may be which drives them to mate, do we?

                          I would describe her as a child desperate for approval and attention, who has lost her way, or whose parents never showed her the way in the first place.

                          Odd how promiscuous boys/men are not generally labelled 'slags', isn't it?

                          Not a terribly helpful label, in my view.
                          'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                          Comment


                            1. Everyone (whether male or female) is responsible for his/her own actions. That's the basis of every Court action.

                            2. Parents therefore need to teach 'right/wrong' distinction to their children. This is not HMG's job, by legislation or via the education system.

                            3. Human beings have freedom of choice. Choose to do good/right, not bad/wrong.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                              1. Everyone (whether male or female) is responsible for his/her own actions. That's the basis of every Court action.

                              2. Parents therefore need to teach 'right/wrong' distinction to their children. This is not HMG's job, neither by legislation nor the education system.

                              3. Human beings have freedom of choice. Choose to do good/right, not bad/wrong.
                              1. Agreed, although the law in E & W sets the ages of sexual and criminal consent differently, doesn't it? And how easy is it, in practice, to identify the age at which a child becomes responsible for his/her own actions? Anyone who works with children or has their own, will tell you they mature at very different rates. There is provision within the law for adults with learning disabilities which compromise their understanding of right and wrong. Does this - should it - extend to children who have not yet been taught right from wrong?

                              2. Agreed. Legislation can only mop up, or possibly deter (although I suspect it does not do the latter, to any great extent); the education sysyem generally, can only re-inforce what moral messages parents teach in the first place and continue to teach, day in day out.

                              3. Who could disagree? Yet how may an amoral 12 or 15 year old choose to 'do right', when they have no clear idea of what 'doing right' means? And this cuts across the whole class system; it's not just the underclass I'm talking about. For example, how many adults would return an overpayment of change in a shop, or inform a utility company or the Tax Office if they had been undercharged? How many adults inflate insurance claims, simply because 'everyone else does'? How often do parents discuss the 'right thing to do' when such a situtation arises? And, in an increasingly selfish and secular society, what incentive/motivation do children have to act in a morally correct way? The concept of 'the greater good' is difficult for them. The concept of 'do unto others as you would have others do unto you', slightly less so, but nonetheless subservient to 'indulge yourself, put yourself first and hang the consequences', the message which seesm to surrounds them wherever they look - and especially when some of them look at their parents, sadly.

                              Here endeth the sermon! Sorry.
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                                I have to disagree with you here.

                                It is not an apt decription since it implies that having sex with lots of different boys/men is a lifestyle sthis young girl has actively and freely chosen. Her age would suggest that it is not a free 'choice' in that she can not have made it in an informed way. It may in part have been a repsonse to the 'raging hormones' to which jta referred earlier, so animal instinct, perhaps. However, we do not tend to call animals 'slags' when they obey their hormones and whatever else it may be which drives them to mate, do we?

                                I would describe her as a child desperate for approval and attention, who has lost her way, or whose parents never showed her the way in the first place.

                                Odd how promiscuous boys/men are not generally labelled 'slags', isn't it?

                                Not a terribly helpful label, in my view.
                                Ah I look forward to your little rants...

                                In fairness an animal doesn't know any better, a human (higher species, although you have to wonder sometimes) should. Just because someone is ignorant of the rights and wrongs doesn't make it ok.

                                Men are usually referred to as Man-Whores...
                                My views and posts are based on my opinion and any advice given is just that, advice. If you decide to act on any advice given it is with the full knowledge that I am not perfect and anything I say could be wrong!

                                Comment

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