Why does sex education fail so often?

[Rodent1]

The principle is similar enough for it to be valid - when 'carrot' (free housing/no need to work) is removed and replaced by stick (removal of free housing/requirement to work), it makes no difference to rates of illegitimate births.

Disagree. Working for cash as opposed to a handout in NO WAY compares to having your home removed.

I can imagine that in the part of South Wales where you live and let properties, you are probably at the sharper end of this than most of the rest of us. I recognise the pattern you have described within my own extended family in the Rhondda. The only difference I have noticed is that where the grandparents are involved with bringing -up their grandchildren, happier families result.

I agree with you that for many families it is a self-perpetuating pattern and one which we should be concerned about.

It seems to me we have two main issues to address, not one. First, how can parents/teachers encourage adolescents (12-16 year olds) to delay becoming sexually active until they are older, and second, given that if that advice falls on deaf ears (as it seems doomed to, in many cases), and they are going to experiment, should we be doing everything we can to prevent them creating new life if they are too immature to care for it themselves? By 'prevent' what do we mean? Do we ground them for four years (impractical!) or supply contraception?

Or educate them (in the broadest sense of the term - by example)
ie At 12/13 i do not think it appropiate for my daughter to be in her bedroom alone with her boyfriend, let alone have him stay the night in the same room let alone same bed! As for tapping on the bedroom door with a packet of condoms, i think you know what my opinion of that would be.

The more I think about it, the more convinced I am that it has to start young - not just the biology lessons and not threats, necessarily, but ensuring that each child feels worth a million dollars to its parents at least - back to self-esteem? Is it a bit like the drugs issue - it's about raising confident, self-assertive kids who like and value themselves enough not to. Easier said than done, I know.

Agree. A child should be encouraged to develop full potential from a young age ...TP(<16) cannot factor into this, but when a child is surrounded by this for most of their life, it is a very difficult task.

The Rodent

[Rodent1]

Who here disagrees with the cervical cancer injections on 12 year olds cause it encourages sexual activity?

Based on what ?

[Rodent1]

at the end of the day, the legalities of the situation never even comes into their head. That is reality!

That is something can be be fairly easily changed !
and better to change this than encourage more of the same irresponsibl behavior ?

Who here disagrees with the cervical cancer injections on 12 year olds cause it encourages sexual activity?

Based on what exactly ?


The Rodent

[jta]

at the end of the day, the legalities of the situation never even comes into their head. That is reality!

Who here disagrees with the cervical cancer injections on 12 year olds cause it encourages sexual activity?

Since my mother died of cervical cancer at the age of 49 I would try to get all girls to take advantage of it. It is not a pleasant way to die.

[mind the gap]

Or educate them (in the broadest sense of the term - by example)

Great idea. The reality is that adolescents (of both sexes) are notoriously averse to following the 'good example' set by their parents - they would rather poke their eye out with a twig, I suspect. Don't worry, I'm being devil's advocate here. I think we are not too far apart in our views, in fact. If the 'good example' is about treating people decently and learning to value yourself as a person (to the point where - perhaps?! - this may help you exercise some control over those raging hormones!)..then great, but I think it is an uphill struggle these days. More so than in the past, when the stigma of having an illegitimate baby was much greater? Parents were less compromising? Or am I generalising too much?

ie At 12/13 i do not think it appropiate for my daughter to be in her bedroom alone with her boyfriend, let alone have him stay the night in the same room let alone same bed! As for tapping on the bedroom door with a packet of condoms, i think you know what my opinion of that would be.

Er...I don't think she'd thank you, Rodent. However, teenagers who are hell bent on having sex, will find somewhere to do so, of course.

[Rodent1]

Great idea. The reality is that adolescents (of both sexes) are notoriously averse to following the 'good example' set by their parents - they would rather poke their eye out with a twig, I suspect. Don't worry, I'm being devil's advocate here. I think we are not too far apart in our views, in fact. If the 'good example' is about treating people decently and learning to value yourself as a person (to the point where - perhaps?! - this may help you exercise some control over those raging hormones!)..then great, but I think it is an uphill struggle these days. More so than in the past, when the stigma of having an illegitimate baby was much greater? Parents were less compromising? Or am I generalising too much?

Bring it back, I say !

Er...I don't think she'd thank you, Rodent. However, teenagers who are hell bent on having sex, will find somewhere to do so, of course.

Nope, but not a situation which will ever occur !

The Rodent

[jta]

those hormones rage just as rampantly across the whole of Europe, yet the UK is (apparently) the worst nation at preventing teenage pregnancies.

Do you have any thoughts on why that may be so, or what can be done to reduce the number?

I can only give my impressions, here in Spain there is much more openness about sex generally, there are even tv channels on in the early hours of the morning that show full blown sex in action, not by subscription, just free for the watching. So the kids that might see this are under no illusions about what bit fits where. Maybe, because it's so open, they don't see it as pornagraphic, which it would certainly be classed as in UK. So there's one reason possibly, the laws are not so repressive!

There is a much stronger religious affinity is Spain, it is almost exclusively a Catholic country, maybe that's another reason, fear of divine retribution.

Spanish Dads are likely to chop important bits off any boys that mess about with their daughters, there's another reason, simple fear of the consequences.

So there are at least three differences straight off the top of my head.

[Rodent1]

I can only give my impressions, here in Spain there is much more openness about sex generally, there are even tv channels on in the early hours of the morning that show full blown sex in action, not by subscription, just free for the watching. So the kids that might see this are under no illusions about what bit fits where. Maybe, because it's so open, they don't see it as pornagraphic, which it would certainly be classed as in UK. So there's one reason possibly, the laws are not so repressive!

There is a much stronger religious affinity is Spain, it is almost exclusively a Catholic country, maybe that's another reason, fear of divine retribution.

Spanish Dads are likely to chop important bits off any boys that mess about with their daughters, there's another reason, simple fear of the consequences.

So there are at least three differences straight off the top of my head.

And all good i will add !

[Sorrel]

As probably the last one out of all the contributors to go through school and take a sex education class, mine just gave all the facts pretty straight forward in a matter of fact kind of way. You dont use contraceptives you may catch an STI you are more than likely ending up with a sprog. Simple as. As a consequence i do not have any kids, to my knowledge.

[Rodent1]

As probably the last one out of all the contributors to go through school and take a sex education class, mine just gave all the facts pretty straight forward in a matter of fact kind of way. You dont use contraceptives you may catch an STI you are more than likely ending up with a sprog. Simple as. As a consequence i do not have any kids, to my knowledge.

Ah... so education CAN work!
MTG will be so pleased

The Rodent

[mind the gap]

Ah... so education CAN work!
MTG will be so pleased

The Rodent

Sorrel, may I ask whether you think you learnt more from your family, or from school, on this topic?

[montana]

l put our moral demise down to Brookside & Eastenders.

l'd lub to blame "home & away" and "Neighbours" ,but, l don't want to be labled an Ozzyist here by the thin minded.

[mind the gap]

here in Spain there is much more openness about sex generally, there are even tv channels on in the early hours of the morning that show full blown sex in action...

There is a much stronger religious affinity is Spain, it is almost exclusively a Catholic country, maybe that's another reason, fear of divine retribution.

How odd that all pervasive Catholicism (as you suggest) exists side-by-side with freely available explicit presentation of sex on TV.

I thought religious observance in Spain was far less widespread today than a generation ago?

[Rodent1]

How odd that all pervasive Catholicism (as you suggest) exists side-by-side with freely available explicit presentation of sex on TV.

I thought religious observance in Spain was far less widespread today than a generation ago?

Guess it works like the catholic view on contrception:

You MUST NOT use contraception, unless, you want to, in which case, "that will be fine"

The Rodent

[mind the gap]

Guess it works like the catholic view on contrception:

You MUST NOT use contraception, unless, you want to, in which case, "that will be fine" :

The Rodent

That would be 'catholic' with a small c, then would it, Rodent?