Why does sex education fail so often?

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    #16
    Originally posted by PI Guy View Post
    the heat of the moment overtakes them 99.99%

    Absolutely. And it's not just teenagers who end up pregnant for that reason, of course.
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      #17
      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
      Absolutely. And it's not just teenagers who end up pregnant for that reason, of course.
      hence the injection
      Best Regards

      PI Guy

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        #18
        Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
        Now taking cover!
        Well, yes, that would probably be a good idea.

        Your idea of a few more hard luck stories to reduce teenage pregnancies is subtle and incisive, but I think it may be slightly flawed. Most of the (many, many) young mothers I have come into contact with over the years, tend not to be short on hard luck.

        I could be wrong, but I think the solutions might be a bit more complex.

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          #19
          Probably a good idea to then look at the statistics surrounding teenage P then.

          1. What % get social housing
          2. What % come from a social housing background

          I think you will find that this will lead you somewhere closer to my opinion ?
          This will also pick up on the mentality of youngsters in Question, RE: MTG posts pts 1,2,3,4,6,9 as further common denominators.

          which leaves:
          5. Burst (I doubt it very much !!--split maybe!) condoms ...which is 99.9% due to an IQ of a peanut.

          7. Iq related again ..if vomit,dia.etc then morning after pill available.

          8. Punish parents ? an extremely ill thought out course of action ? (back to IQ then)

          My point of "to get a home" is THE only way for a minority of "people", but when applied to this situation I firmly believe to be a considerable % of reason for Teenage P, not overlooking that teenagers go all the way upto nineTEEN, when young couples are looking to get onto the housing ladder ....

          I would also venture that any girl/couple with a "troubled" background ie abuse wether phsical,emotional,mental or sexual will probably drop into one or more of MTG suggested categories and also have a STRONG desire to get away from the "family home" and get "someone to love and, be loved by" ....


          Or are we looking to confine this thread to single school girl mothers ?

          The Rodent
          A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
          W.Churchill

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            #20
            Originally posted by PI Guy View Post
            hence the injection
            That just says "Do it, and as often as you like"

            At what age do you propose "injecting" at, 11,12, or did you want to stay within the confines of the law and wait until they are 16 ?

            The Rodent
            A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
            W.Churchill

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              #21
              what law do u mean?
              Best Regards

              PI Guy

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                #22
                Originally posted by mind the gap View Post

                Think about it Rodent - even if your 'Daily Mail' hypothesis were correct (which I dispute), family relationships must have broken down to a desperate level for a 16 year old to arrive at the point where she actively seeks to get pregnant to get away from her parents and her home. They don't just wake up one day and think 'I fancy a change - I'd like to leave home - I know! I'll get pregnant then I'll get a flat.'
                Agree.

                BUT alot will come to the point in their lives b4 the end of their teenage years (wether as a couple or single mother) where they want to leave the nest (for whatever reason) and i would wager a considerable amount of these pregnancies are "insured" in youngster(s) mind with a prop wether this be the sole motivator or underlying safety net.

                The removal of such, i would wager, would have a very noticeable effect on statistics.

                I am aware that i am laboring the point somewhat and accept that there are other "reasons" fo TP but will not accept:

                "it's a bit of a myth, really"

                This will be the same myth as a T that refuses to pay rent in order to get evicted as the means to get social housing direct from the council I guess!


                Now then anyone able to get the stats on correlation between these 2 groups, i wonder how much "overlap" there is ?#

                Have i got somthing against single mums/ tp ?

                NOPE ...my mother was one, my sister was one, and Mrs R was one when i met her altho none thru accom seeking !!!("one" refering to a group and not age !!!)

                The Rodent
                A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                W.Churchill

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by PI Guy View Post
                  what law do u mean?

                  The law that states that sex under the age of 16 is illegal and classed as rape.
                  Which one did you think i meant ?
                  or were you just thinking to encourage underage sex with no regard for the law ?

                  The Rodent
                  A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                  W.Churchill

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
                    and also have a STRONG desire ... to love and, be loved by" ....

                    Or are we looking to confine this thread to single school girl mothers ?

                    I did think the conversation was more about the under 18s, so apologies if I got the wrong end of the stick on that one.

                    On the broader topic, I really am not sure why so many young people have children so early. I guess there will be many reasons. But I do think you probably hit upon one of the main answers in your response - the bit I have quoted above.

                    And one of the reasons why I find this quite convincing is because this is why I had children; and I would guess it is why most adults have children too.

                    So, my argument would be, start with the obvious. Young people want children for the same reason that older people do. Our task, I guess, is to convince them that they can do all that stuff later in their lives, because there is something else more interesting, exciting and important for them at the moment. For many people, perhaps, those alternatives just don't seem to be within their grasp.

                    And by the way, if you are lucky enough never to have an "accident", then well done, but I am reliably informed that it really does still happen, particularly amongst those who are perhaps less well informed.

                    Your comments about social housing are just that, comments, they are not evidence. To illustrate, generally speaking, incomes and education levels are lower amongst social housing tenants than owner occupiers (though not lower than private rented accommodation in some areas, interestingly). Does this mean that people deliberately get themselves lower paid jobs in order to get a rented home? What is missing from your comments is a causal link and to my knowledge, no researchers have yet established a link between the decision to become pregnant and the desire for a social rented home.

                    That is not to say, of course, that for some people the decision to become pregnant may be reinforced by the knowledge that if they do so, they will have a higher priority for a home, but this does not explain the desire for pregnancy in the first place.

                    Finally, it is often the case that teenage pregnancies are highest in areas of highest housing stress, where even young vulnerable lone parents may have to wait a very long time for a flat or a house and this, very often, is not of their preferred type or in their area of choice in any case. The notion that getting pregnant = getting the house of your choice just doesn't work in practice.



                    Preston

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by mind the gap View Post

                      Why does Britain still have one of the highest teenage pregnancy rates in Europe?
                      Some research that I've came across indicates that teenage mothers were more likely to come from homes experiencing parental divorce or separation , to have been in care, to have low educational attainment and to have lived in social housing

                      In the US states that bought in workfare to replace benefits, even for single mothers with young children (meaning that the recipient had to to undertake community work on a full-time basis to qualify for their benefits), welfare rolls feel substantially but rates of illegitimacy did not reduce at all. The latter was an unexpected outcome - it was assumed that if single mothers were forced into employment instead of bringing up their children on state benefits, this would discourage them from having children outside of marriage.

                      According to a presentation I found relating to the Teenage Pregnancy Strategy from the Teenage Pregnancy Unit:-

                      Who becomes a teenage parent?
                      Risk factors for early pregnancy:

                      Deprivation
                      Poor educational attainment and attendance/ dislike of school
                      Looked after children & care leavers
                      Some BME groups

                      Social outcomes for teenage mothers
                      61% are lone parents
                      Social isolation
                      The relationship with the child’s father tends to be fragile
                      But…….

                      Many report positive experiences of parenthood, it can be a turning point in their lives

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
                        Condoms are used, but burst
                        An oft-quoted reason but on the overwhelming majority of occasions that this is reported as a reason for an unwanted pregnancy, the real reason is that no precautions were taken at all, and the girl at the abortion clinic reckons that 'the condom burst' sounds better than 'we didn't bother'.

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                          #27
                          Originally posted by Rodent1 View Post
                          The law that states that sex under the age of 16 is illegal and classed as rape.
                          Which one did you think i meant ?
                          or were you just thinking to encourage underage sex with no regard for the law ?

                          The Rodent
                          you need to get real if you are to address the issues. While illegal (technically) as long as within their age group noone will prosecute.
                          Best Regards

                          PI Guy

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                            #28
                            Having been involved in teaching in secondary schools (in relatively deprived areas) what struck me was that many of the girls had no ambition other than "to have a baby". year 10/11 girls would wait outside school with prams to show off their offspring to a gaggle of cooing admirers.....
                            As regards education, it is of course best done by parents. I have always been totally honest with mine and answered their questions truthfully. I firmly believe that they do not actually ask anything unless they are ready to know.
                            Mind you my eldest (now 12) grew up when we had cattle and knew all there was to know about the mechanics of reproduction from about the age of 6 and enjoyed explaining it to everyone at school. One of the teachers said during a discussion about the school's sex ed policy "well, your lad could have given the lessons from about year 4 couldn't he?" Another proud mother moment!
                            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
                              Having been involved in teaching in secondary schools (in relatively deprived areas) what struck me was that many of the girls had no ambition other than "to have a baby". year 10/11 girls would wait outside school with prams to show off their offspring to a gaggle of cooing admirers.....
                              As regards education, it is of course best done by parents. I have always been totally honest with mine and answered their questions truthfully. I firmly believe that they do not actually ask anything unless they are ready to know.
                              Mind you my eldest (now 12) grew up when we had cattle and knew all there was to know about the mechanics of reproduction from about the age of 6 and enjoyed explaining it to everyone at school. One of the teachers said during a discussion about the school's sex ed policy "well, your lad could have given the lessons from about year 4 couldn't he?" Another proud mother moment!
                              I agree - honesty is the best policy. However, it can have interesting consequences. One of my sons, aged 7, came rushing up to me at a crowded poolside in Italy (we were on holiday), and demanded loudly to to be told whether what his sister had just told him about how babies were made, was true or not, as he thought it sounded so 'gross' that he thought that she must be making it up. (She wasn't, as it happened!).

                              I thought, now is the time, and explained as simply and clearly as I could (not to mention quietly, as we had attracted a bit of an audience of interested Italian teenagers by this point), exactly what he wanted to know about the whole process. During the explanation, he gazed at me with increasing incredulity and uncharacteristic concentration, before finally declaring 'Well I think that sounds really... unhygienic'.

                              (Which I thought was bit rich, coming from the least hygienic, most soap-averse child on the face of the planet...)

                              My husband found our other son (aged 9) poring over an Usborne sex education book and asked if it was interesting, whether there was anything he wanted explaining, etc. No, said son, he thought he had worked it all out...but he just wanted to check something. How long do you have to 'do it' for, and if you want to have twins, do you have to 'do it' for twice as long?
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Originally posted by PI Guy View Post
                                you need to get real if you are to address the issues. While illegal (technically) as long as within their age group noone will prosecute.

                                Illegal = break the law, please explain "technically" ?

                                Most children (and that is exactly what they are) are not equipped emotionally to deal with sex at such an early age (< 16)

                                Long term conctraceptive devices not only condone, but encourage the incidence of underage sex and IMHO, is both morally and legally the wrong thing to do.

                                This issue is very complex and there are no easy answers but to treat the symptoms and not the cause with a remedy that actually creates a bigger problem cannot be the way forward.

                                Clearly education is the way forward, but as the biggest input comes from peer group, background, family values and history along with personal experiences - v - a few hours of talks at school, this is a great challenge.
                                It is a somewhat self perpetuating problem, which society in general needs to address, by leading by example - which will take as many generations to solve, as it has to create the problem.


                                So what age do you propose "injecting"?

                                I respectfully suggest that you "get real"

                                The Rodent
                                A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity; an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty.
                                W.Churchill

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