Why does sex education fail so often?

[Rodent1]

what law do u mean?

The law that states that sex under the age of 16 is illegal and classed as rape.
Which one did you think i meant ?
or were you just thinking to encourage underage sex with no regard for the law ?

The Rodent

[Rodent1]

Think about it Rodent - even if your 'Daily Mail' hypothesis were correct (which I dispute), family relationships must have broken down to a desperate level for a 16 year old to arrive at the point where she actively seeks to get pregnant to get away from her parents and her home. They don't just wake up one day and think 'I fancy a change - I'd like to leave home - I know! I'll get pregnant then I'll get a flat.'

Agree.

BUT alot will come to the point in their lives b4 the end of their teenage years (wether as a couple or single mother) where they want to leave the nest (for whatever reason) and i would wager a considerable amount of these pregnancies are "insured" in youngster(s) mind with a prop wether this be the sole motivator or underlying safety net.

The removal of such, i would wager, would have a very noticeable effect on statistics.

I am aware that i am laboring the point somewhat and accept that there are other "reasons" fo TP but will not accept:

"it's a bit of a myth, really"

This will be the same myth as a T that refuses to pay rent in order to get evicted as the means to get social housing direct from the council I guess!


Now then anyone able to get the stats on correlation between these 2 groups, i wonder how much "overlap" there is ?#

Have i got somthing against single mums/ tp ?

NOPE ...my mother was one, my sister was one, and Mrs R was one when i met her altho none thru accom seeking !!!("one" refering to a group and not age !!!)

The Rodent

[PI Guy]

what law do u mean?

[Rodent1]

hence the injection

That just says "Do it, and as often as you like"

At what age do you propose "injecting" at, 11,12, or did you want to stay within the confines of the law and wait until they are 16 ?

The Rodent

[Rodent1]

Probably a good idea to then look at the statistics surrounding teenage P then.

1. What % get social housing
2. What % come from a social housing background

I think you will find that this will lead you somewhere closer to my opinion ?
This will also pick up on the mentality of youngsters in Question, RE: MTG posts pts 1,2,3,4,6,9 as further common denominators.

which leaves:
5. Burst (I doubt it very much !!--split maybe!) condoms ...which is 99.9% due to an IQ of a peanut.

7. Iq related again ..if vomit,dia.etc then morning after pill available.

8. Punish parents ? an extremely ill thought out course of action ? (back to IQ then)

My point of "to get a home" is THE only way for a minority of "people", but when applied to this situation I firmly believe to be a considerable % of reason for Teenage P, not overlooking that teenagers go all the way upto nineTEEN, when young couples are looking to get onto the housing ladder ....

I would also venture that any girl/couple with a "troubled" background ie abuse wether phsical,emotional,mental or sexual will probably drop into one or more of MTG suggested categories and also have a STRONG desire to get away from the "family home" and get "someone to love and, be loved by" ....


Or are we looking to confine this thread to single school girl mothers ?

The Rodent

[Preston]

Now taking cover!

Well, yes, that would probably be a good idea.

Your idea of a few more hard luck stories to reduce teenage pregnancies is subtle and incisive, but I think it may be slightly flawed. Most of the (many, many) young mothers I have come into contact with over the years, tend not to be short on hard luck.

I could be wrong, but I think the solutions might be a bit more complex.

[PI Guy]

Absolutely. And it's not just teenagers who end up pregnant for that reason, of course.

hence the injection

[mind the gap]

the heat of the moment overtakes them 99.99%

Absolutely. And it's not just teenagers who end up pregnant for that reason, of course.

[mind the gap]

Rodent : Yours is flawed logic. Just because pregant teenagers are not entitled to social housing in the rest of Europe, this does not necessarily mean that those in Britain become pregnant because they may be/are entitled to it.

It's far more complicated than that, and I don't have any easy answers.

However, the EU country with the lowest rate of teenage pregnancy is the Netherlands and they also have the most open attitude amongst parents towards discussing sexual behaviour with their children. And I think I have read that the few teenagers who do get pregnant benefit from a lot of state intervention in terms of child benefit and special education, at least. Not sure about housing.

Think about it Rodent - even if your 'Daily Mail' hypothesis were correct (which I dispute), family relationships must have broken down to a desperate level for a 16 year old to arrive at the point where she actively seeks to get pregnant to get away from her parents and her home. They don't just wake up one day and think 'I fancy a change - I'd like to leave home - I know! I'll get pregnant then I'll get a flat.'

So perhaps the work needs to be done with the parents, rather than with the kids?

[PI Guy]

I'm sure there are more...

the heat of the moment overtakes them 99.99%

[Rodent1]

I was waiting for someone to trot this one out, Rodent...but you're distorting the truth here. Most teenage mothers continue to live in the parental home; a minority are given social housing. There may be a very small number who deliberately become pregnant 'just to get a flat' but it's a bit of a myth, really.

Some reasons why teenage girls get pregnant, as far as I can tell and in no particular order:

1 They feel unloved, they crave attention, and they think a baby will give them those things

2 They notice that people with new babies are made a fuss of and they want that for themselves

3 They want to accessorise something - buy it a mini football strip and dinky trainers - this urge is usually in inverse propertion to their ability to afford such trappings

4 They have desperately low self esteem and believe boys who tell them that unless they have sex with them, they will leave them

5 Condoms are used, but burst

6 Condoms are used, but put on the wrong thing (see my previous post)

7 Contraceptive pill fails because of diarrhoea/vomiting/antibiotics etc.

8 They get pregnant to punish their parents

9 They genuinely have no idea that there is a connection between having sex and becoming pregnant

I'm sure there are more...

No distortion whatsoever unless you are unwilling to accept:

"there is a sector of the young generation"

Equally all of the above that you mention apply as well, BUT Q is why higher in Britain ?
All that you mention apply outside uk ......my suggestion doesn't (generally?) so maybe this is a bigger force than you are prepared to accept ?

The Rodent

[mind the gap]

Perhaps if HMG weren't so fast to be handing out starter homes to youngsters with kids, they would think a little harder b4 indulging, there is a sector of the young generation for whom this is the natural way to leave home: get a baby- get (given) a flat (on the tax payer)


Further more have another one: get a bigger flat.

Instead of role models with free housing, i venture that a few hard luck examples would turn this situation around sharpish.

Now taking cover!

The Rodent

I was waiting for someone to trot this one out, Rodent...but you're distorting the truth here. Most teenage mothers continue to live in the parental home; a minority are given social housing. There may be a very small number who deliberately become pregnant 'just to get a flat' but it's a bit of a myth, really.

Some reasons why teenage girls get pregnant, as far as I can tell and in no particular order:

1 They feel unloved, they crave attention, and they think a baby will give them those things

2 They notice that people with new babies are made a fuss of and they want that for themselves

3 They want to accessorise something - buy it a mini football strip and dinky trainers - this urge is usually in inverse propertion to their ability to afford such trappings

4 They have desperately low self esteem and believe boys who tell them that unless they have sex with them, they will leave them

5 Condoms are used, but burst

6 Condoms are used, but put on the wrong thing (see my previous post)

7 Contraceptive pill fails because of diarrhoea/vomiting/antibiotics etc.

8 They get pregnant to punish their parents

9 They genuinely have no idea that there is a connection between having sex and becoming pregnant

I'm sure there are more...

[Rodent1]

Perhaps if HMG weren't so fast to be handing out starter homes to youngsters with kids, they would think a little harder b4 indulging, there is a sector of the young generation for whom this is the natural way to leave home: get a baby- get (given) a flat (on the tax payer)


Further more have another one: get a bigger flat.

Instead of role models with free housing, i venture that a few hard luck examples would turn this situation around sharpish.

Now taking cover!

The Rodent

[mind the gap]

Excellent questions, wish I knew the answers. I have a seventeen year old daughter and a 12 year old son. I have a large extended family too. And one thing I do know is that children develop at very, very different rates, so a "one size fits all" approach probably won't work. Having said that, I do tend towards more information than less. I really don't buy the argument that a teacher talking to a group lf young people about sex excites their interest in the practical application of the subject more than would otherwise have been the case. But you could probably comment on that one MTG?!

Preston

I agree about the 'one size fits all' approach. During my teaching career, I've seen a variety of 'sex and relationships education' policies being implemented in schools, with pupils of different ages, and I'm not convinced any of them have been especially effective. What I have noticed is that they listen more attentively in schools, to information and advice from people nearer their own age - which is why the policy of sending medical students into schools to deliver sex ed is a good idea, I think. I've seen sixth formers helping to deliver such programmes to younger students, too, but they have to be very well trained or they can end up bragging about their own sex lives - which isn't what you want!

I don't think drawing their attention to it in lessons makes them any more likely to try it out, no. Teenagers are - and always have been - pretty obsessed with it, haven't they?

You can give them the facts - about which there is still astonishing ignorance*, despite the way sex is everywhere in the media...and you can try to raise their self-esteem so that they don't feel pressured into having sex before they are ready. But I've come to the conclusion that although teachers have been given the responsibility of giving both information and advice about sexual relationships, it should be parents who educate their children in this crucial aspect of life. Unfortunately many don't, from embarrassment, ignorance, whatever.

*my friend, who is a health visitor, asked a pregant 14 year old why she and her boyfriend had not used contraception. The girl was indignant. They had, she insisted. They had put the condom on a carrot before they had sex, just as they had been shown in sex ed at school. It hadn't worked, and that wasn't her fault, was it?

[Preston]

I don't remember any sex education at my school when i was there but then i knew more than I should have at that age having "lost" it at age 13. Luckly no one got pregnant.

At that age, I wouldnt have known where to look for it in the first place, let alone lose it.