Why does sex education fail so often?

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    Originally posted by Sorrel View Post
    In fairness an animal doesn't know any better, a human (higher species, although you have to wonder sometimes) should. Just because someone is ignorant of the rights and wrongs doesn't make it ok.
    Doesn't make what OK? If you mean promiscuous sexual behaviour, then no, ignorance that it is morally objectionable and biologically undesirable - for all the reasons thrashed out in this thread - doesn't make it 'OK'...but nor does it make it OK for you to label the girl a 'slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag'.

    I think we have established that she 'doesn't know any better' so by your own logic, it's inappropriate to condemn her - or at least her alone - for it.

    QED (or in your language, QE2)
    'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

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      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
      2. Parents therefore need to teach 'right/wrong' distinction to their children. This is not HMG's job, by legislation or via the education system.
      Agreed.

      However, it seems to me that a feedback loop has developed/is developing where the more HMG legislates, lectures or micromanages behaviour that should be a matter of common sense, judgement, manners, decent behaviour or morals, the less the population feels the need to think for themselves and the less they feel the need to think for themselves on those issues (or putting it the opposite way, the more they feel the need for rules or codes of practice etc to guide them), the more HMG needs to legislate/lecture/micromanage behaviours - and so the wheel turns.

      In summary, it seems to me that people are turning into robots who await instructions rather than moral agents who are capable of exercising judgement.

      For an extreme example of this automaton-like mentality in action, look at the case where British soldiers mistreated and in once case, killed, Iraquis at Camp Breadbasket in Basra, and similarly, the abuses that took place at Abu Grahib. The excuse the soldiers often gave for their repellent behaviour was that they had not been trained or instructed in how to treat prisoners. In other words, the participants apparently didn't think for themselves, "is the way I am treating this man morally correct?" and make a behavioural decision on that basis, they simply reverted to a sub-human state of nature and acted like savages because they hadn't been explicitly told, under threat of sanction, to act like decent human beings.
      Health Warning


      I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

      All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

      Comment


        Originally posted by mind the gap View Post
        Doesn't make what OK? If you mean promiscuous sexual behaviour, then no, ignorance that it is morally objectionable and biologically undesirable - for all the reasons thrashed out in this thread - doesn't make it 'OK'...but nor does it make it OK for you to label the girl a 'slaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaag'.

        I think we have established that she 'doesn't know any better' so by your own logic, it's inappropriate to condemn her - or at least her alone - for it.

        QED (or in your language, QE2)
        All right then everyone's a slag, happy now?
        My views and posts are based on my opinion and any advice given is just that, advice. If you decide to act on any advice given it is with the full knowledge that I am not perfect and anything I say could be wrong!

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          Different question: why 'slag'? It used to mean a heap of colliery waste; so is it a transferred epithet or unconnected?
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

          Comment


            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
            Different question: why 'slag'? It used to mean a heap of colliery waste; so is it a transferred epithet or unconnected?
            A good question.

            Slag did indeed (and still does, in Anglophone countries where they still have collieries) mean 'coal dust' or 'colliery waste', i.e., the small pieces left after coal is screened, etymologically related to sleck [c1440] and M.Du. slacke and MLG slagge [1552]; (splinter flying off metal when struck). Slagge itself comes from OHG slahan (to strike/slay) but the modern slag off (meaning to denigrate) dates back only to 1970s.

            The word 'heap' is generally added to create a compound noun signifying a big pile of the stuff. (The various names for types or qualities of coal dust are in themsleves fascinating : my favourite is nutty slack).

            I cannot find any other source for the current abusive inference of the word, so we have to assume it is related to the 1970s sense of 'worthless person'.

            What I find interesting is that the word is almost always used of women, that it has connotations of worthlessness, dirt and danger - and when combined with 'heap', of hugeness/shapelessness.

            Now...that brings me to the word 'slut'...!
            'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

            Comment


              Sorrel your not dull...you know the connotations of the word "slag" especially when emphasised the way you did (slaaaaaaag).
              It's just not a nice way to speak....full stop.

              Comment


                Another reason for failure of sex education is the media's constant and flagrant lasciviousness. See, for a further example, today's BBC News website item (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4703166.stm?lss) headed "Sexercise yourself into shape". It's hardly surprising that children become obsessed by it when adults exhibit no self-restraint either?
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                  Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                  Another reason for failure of sex education is the media's constant and flagrant lasciviousness. See, for a further example, today's BBC News website item (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4703166.stm?lss) headed "Sexercise yourself into shape". It's hardly surprising that children become obsessed by it when adults exhibit no self-restraint either?

                  I quite agree.

                  It feels like there are fewer and fewer boundaries, and anyone who shows any concern is dismissed as a judgemental, prudish, reactionary old fuddy duddy.

                  And I know I sound uncomfortably like Richard Littlejohn when I express such opinions, but there it is - we're all going to Hell in a handbasket, you couldn't make it up, it's political correctness gone mad etc etc.
                  Health Warning


                  I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

                  All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by agent46 View Post
                    We're all going to Hell in a handbasket
                    See, we used to go in a handcart- but even that's been changed nowadays.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                      Another reason for failure of sex education is the media's constant and flagrant lasciviousness. See, for a further example, today's BBC News website item (http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/4703166.stm?lss) headed "Sexercise yourself into shape". It's hardly surprising that children become obsessed by it when adults exhibit no self-restraint either?
                      I would echo this. Also, it seems to me that the focus in this all-pervasive sexualisation (have I just made that word up?) of life, is almost entirely selfish or self-obsessed - what the individual can get out of it, the 'me' at the centre of things, all the time. Treating others decently or even putting others first sometimes, seems to come along way down the list.

                      If I sound like a grumpy old woman, so be it.
                      'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                        See, we used to go in a handcart- but even that's been changed nowadays.

                        Can't we go in a handbag? There are some very nice ones in Monsoon...
                        'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                        Comment


                          Another thing which seems to be missing these days is "Respect for your body", I was brought up partly by my grandparents who always emphasised the need for modesty.
                          You don't seem to get that so much now, it's now the norm to teat sex as recreation not procreation.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                            See, we used to go in a handcart- but even that's been changed nowadays.
                            You lot ooop north may be content to be pushed around in a barrow, but I have a couple of chaps who carry me in a wickerwork sedan chair.
                            Health Warning


                            I try my best to be accurate, but please bear in mind that some posts are written in a matter of seconds and often cannot be edited later on.

                            All information contained in my posts is given without any assumption of responsibility on my part. This means that if you rely on my advice but it turns out to be wrong and you suffer losses (of any kind) as a result, then you cannot sue me.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by agent46 View Post
                              You lot ooop north may be content to be pushed around in a barrow, but I have a couple of chaps who carry me in a wickerwork sedan chair.
                              Isn't that a bit ridgy?
                              'Pause you who read this, and think for a moment of the long chain of iron or gold, of thorns or flowers, that would never have bound you, but for the formation fo the first link on one memorable day'. Charles Dickens, Great Expectations

                              Comment


                                Flippin Heck! I just read my last post and sound like a 90 year old.....
                                What are you guys turning me into!

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