Gardening - what on earth is happening in our country

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    #91
    Originally posted by SouthernDave View Post

    From an employers perspective, this is very disappointing. This is news to me, and, if true, University is now completely pointless IMHO unless (speaking frankly) you want to be a doctor or something like that.
    I may have to stop hiring anyone that has been to univesity.
    Which bit is disappointing? That universities rarely interview potential students or that more pupils from state schools are being admitted to Oxbridge? If it’s the former I think most universities stopped that a long time ago as I don’t think my older cousins were ever interviewed. I don’t know if it’s because the applications are all done online with UCAS where you include your personal statement, extra curricular activities, etc or if it’s due to the sheer number of students applying these days that make interviewing everyone impractical.

    I don’t think I’d have the career I do now if I didn’t have an engineering degree and it would have been a much longer path to becoming a chartered engineer without one. I’m not sure Australia would have given me a my visa without one either.

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      #92
      Originally posted by DoricPixie View Post

      Which bit is disappointing? That universities rarely interview potential students or that more pupils from state schools are being admitted to Oxbridge? If it’s the former I think most universities stopped that a long time ago as I don’t think my older cousins were ever interviewed. I don’t know if it’s because the applications are all done online with UCAS where you include your personal statement, extra curricular activities, etc or if it’s due to the sheer number of students applying these days that make interviewing everyone impractical.

      I don’t think I’d have the career I do now if I didn’t have an engineering degree and it would have been a much longer path to becoming a chartered engineer without one. I’m not sure Australia would have given me a my visa without one either.
      If what the previous poster said about easily getting into top universities is true, then yes I’m disappointed, that basically anyone can go to university. More specifically, the top ones. Just makes a mockery of the whole system, which what is now basically a largely state funded education, as hardly anyone pays off their debt. A degree from Oxford is the same as a degree from Bristol, the value used to be that someone managed to get into Oxford, not the fact they got a degree. So it feels like degrees are largely pointless now unless your job specifically needs it.

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        #93
        Originally posted by SouthernDave View Post

        If what the previous poster said about easily getting into top universities is true, then yes I’m disappointed, that basically anyone can go to university. More specifically, the top ones. Just makes a mockery of the whole system, which what is now basically a largely state funded education, as hardly anyone pays off their debt. A degree from Oxford is the same as a degree from Bristol, the value used to be that someone managed to get into Oxford, not the fact they got a degree. So it feels like degrees are largely pointless now unless your job specifically needs it.
        I seem to be missing what someone has said about easily getting into top universities. Was it me by saying that you apply through UCAS online? Even with the increased number of universities and courses available it isn’t true to say that basically anyone can go to university. There are still those that won’t get in. Then once in you have to actually pass your exams which not everyone will do. Now if you graduate with anything less than a 2:1 you might as well not have bothered as a Desmond or a Richard won’t get you into most employers’ graduate roles. It doesn’t matter the subject.

        Certainly with engineering and science a bachelors is no longer enough and you should to be looking at a masters. You need either a masters in an approved subject at an accredited university to become chartered with the UK’s engineering council or be able to demonstrate further learning to masters once you’ve got some engineering work experience under your belt.

        Im not sure it is easier to get into Oxbridge it’s just that now state school pupils are being encouraged to apply whereas before private schools would help prep pupils for applying whilst state schools didn’t really put Oxbridge forward as a realistic goal even for the brightest pupils. Now people from Oxbridge are actively going into state schools to encourage pupils to apply. They’re even encouraging storylines in soap operas these days to make it seem achievable for those from ordinary backgrounds.

        The name of the Tory MP escapes me but he wanted to study PPE at Oxford and didn’t quite have the grades or at least wasn’t on track to get good grades. His father was a Labour MP, possibly even a Labour peer who had attended Oxford and therefore knew that Brasenose College had the lowest entry requirement for PPE out of all the Oxford colleges and even put a phone call into the college to help his son get in. What was so special about that future Tory MP that made getting into Oxford a real achievement? His family knew how to game the system that’s all. Don’t get me wrong, there are some exceptionally bright people at Oxbridge and I think they want to keep it that way which is why they’re opening up more to state school pupils and trying to attract students from more diverse backgrounds.

        Don't go knocking Bristol either as in some subjects it outranks both Cambridge and Oxford. It’s too simplistic to say that all degrees from one university are better than degrees from another. It really does depend on the subject, the research being done at the university and the teaching staff.

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          #94
          Originally posted by SouthernDave View Post
          A degree from Oxford is the same as a degree from Bristol, the value used to be that someone managed to get into Oxford, not the fact they got a degree.
          I don't think the basic premise of that is true, though.
          For a lot of subjects, the resources available are materially different.

          I went to the university where the professor who wrote my A level Economic History textbook taught.
          That wasn't available anywhere else - it's not like everyone's the same.

          And the environment is very different.
          It's not a coincidence that half the government always has a degree from Oxbridge, usually in Philosophy, Politics and Economics.

          I've interviewed Oxbridge graduates and people from Bristol and there's a difference.

          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #95
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            I don't think the basic premise of that is true, though.
            For a lot of subjects, the resources available are materially different.

            I went to the university where the professor who wrote my A level Economic History textbook taught.
            That wasn't available anywhere else - it's not like everyone's the same.

            And the environment is very different.
            It's not a coincidence that half the government always has a degree from Oxbridge, usually in Philosophy, Politics and Economics.

            I've interviewed Oxbridge graduates and people from Bristol and there's a difference.
            I personally think different, but it’s cool for us to think differently.

            Comment


              #96
              Originally posted by SouthernDave View Post
              I personally think different, but it’s cool for us to think differently.
              Agreed.

              We're going to get thrown off the internet aren't we?
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #97
                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                Agreed.

                We're going to get thrown off the internet aren't we?
                Defo, you can’t go agreeing in on the interweb. You are meant to send death threats and stuff over the disagreement of something simple like the colour purple.

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                  #98
                  Originally posted by SouthernDave View Post

                  If what the previous poster said about easily getting into top universities is true, then yes I’m disappointed, that basically anyone can go to university. More specifically, the top ones. Just makes a mockery of the whole system, which what is now basically a largely state funded education, as hardly anyone pays off their debt. A degree from Oxford is the same as a degree from Bristol, the value used to be that someone managed to get into Oxford, not the fact they got a degree. So it feels like degrees are largely pointless now unless your job specifically needs it.
                  Don’t most people pay more than there degree but less than the mental interest rate charged on top ?.

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                    #99
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post

                    And the environment is very different.
                    It's not a coincidence that half the government always has a degree from Oxbridge, usually in Philosophy, Politics and Economics.
                    Especially not when you look at the schools most of those MP attended before going to, usually Oxford, to study PPE. It seems to be less about what they learn and more about the contacts and networks they make. Who you know rather than what you know. Perhaps that’s one of the many issues with the successive governments of the UK, too much cronyism and not enough focus on merit.

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by DoricPixie View Post

                      Especially not when you look at the schools most of those MP attended before going to, usually Oxford, to study PPE. It seems to be less about what they learn and more about the contacts and networks they make. Who you know rather than what you know. Perhaps that’s one of the many issues with the successive governments of the UK, too much cronyism and not enough focus on merit.
                      My son studied PPE at Jesus. The course was devoid of any applied economics, the material you need to get an insight into money-laundering, collusive practices, rigging the financial markets etc and the basics of monetarism .I got a degree of modest standard at a basic university ,but my understanding was far deeper ,and more capable of assessing current economic issues. He also inhabits an Oxbridge bubble .Completely let down the family.

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