Gas or electric replacement for existing gas central heating systems ?.

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  • Codger
    replied
    There were grants to cavity insulare flats but not to do the roof of flat roofed blocks. Or the ground floor where that is possible from a cellar.. But they were offering gas boilers. Not much sense in the policy. If i insulate internally i pay v a t on materials.

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  • Ted.E.Bear
    replied
    Originally posted by jpucng62 View Post
    if you want to be green at present your only choice ie electricity.
    that isn't yet really a green choice while so much electricity is generated from fossil fuels.

    If you were to switch from gas to electric heating then you will burn about twice as much gas for the same amount of heating. That will change over time, but it's not really a green thing to do right now. Heatpumps do change the equation, but that's not always a good option.

    At the moment, I wouldn't want to replace a gas boiler with something else until there is more certainty of what the future will be (and hoping that mine doesn't break down!).
    EPCs will be changing soon and are expected to focus more on insulation than heating, but who knows how that will actually work in practice.

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  • jpucng62
    replied
    The green version is much more expensive than the blue, carbon emitting one - and guess what you need to make hydogen? Electricity! Anyone else see this as being a circular argument?

    We can't produce enough hydrogen even if it was the answer and 20% hydrogen means 80% natural gas.

    I think this may be the betamax video system of heating!

    There is no sensible alternative to GCH at present but the best option might be green electricity - you can have an electric boiler on your wet system or a series of electric radiators. Supply electricity from wind or sun & its green. Take the subsidies off the price and it reduces by 25%.

    Bottom line - we are all going to pay more to stay warm and if you want to be green at present your only choice ie electricity.

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  • Codger
    replied
    Hydrogen is like electrity in that it can be produced by green or carbonemitting methods. Untill we have a surplus of green electricity any change is a pipedream.
    there are no hydrogen mines.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    I'm not connected to the gas system (out here in the country) so my options are more limited.
    Heat exchangers would mean new radiators and there's some doubt that the piping would be sufficient - so the cost of switch over for me is horrendous.

    So I'll keep burning kerosene for some time.

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  • landlord-man
    replied
    Fine for adding 20% hydrogen to existing gas pipework.

    However, the current network cannot handle much more hydrogen content as it degrades the pipework and all needs replacing.

    Hold off and buy a new gas boiler just before the Law change (but book it a good year ahead to avoid the rush) - that way you get a few more years of use while the whole thing is sorted.

    ....and when it does change to hydrogen be sure your neighbours are non-smokers as house explosions are estimated to increase x 4

    Another thing to think about - what happens WHEN they change from "gas" to hydrogen?

    It means every gas-fed property on that pipeline has to have a gas/hydrogen system installed already - and a mad rush for those who haven't as their whole system suddenly becomes redundant and they have zero heating etc. I guess it's one way for the Gov to reduce the pensions bill.

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Originally posted by Section20z View Post
    I don't think that's the case, I have already seen boilers that run on a mix (I think they just change the jets like with LPG) and there have been experiments with adding hydrogen in with the coal gas to use existing pipework.
    Assuming you can "just change the jets", you'd have to do it on hundreds, maybe thousands of properties simultaneously.
    Or turn the gas supply to everyone's house of, change over supply and work through everyone switching them back on when they were converted.
    Gas supply networks are big.
    It might be like when they changed all our cookers in the 70's !!
    That was a relatively small change in the chemistry of the gas.

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  • Section20z
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    Hydrogen is a great idea, but the transition is, frankly, impossible.
    A whole parallel pipeline infrastructure would be required - and that's just not really possible.

    And the carbon footprint of that much construction would exceed the savings from hydrogen for decades.
    I don't think that's the case, I have already seen boilers that run on a mix (I think they just change the jets like with LPG) and there have been experiments with adding hydrogen in with the coal gas to use existing pipework.
    It might be like when they changed all our cookers in the 70's !!

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  • jpkeates
    replied
    Hydrogen is a great idea, but the transition is, frankly, impossible.
    A whole parallel pipeline infrastructure would be required - and that's just not really possible.

    And the carbon footprint of that much construction would exceed the savings from hydrogen for decades.

    Leave a comment:


  • ifallelsefails
    replied
    Well, in July, there was meant to be a Heat and Buildings Strategy published, but it didn't appear and instead has been pushed to the autumn. There was a lot of backlash about it because of the heat pumps and the boilers. I remember it being reported on the news. The Heat and Buildings Strategy is meant to confirm the cut off date for the sale of new gas boilers. Then the Daily Mail was reporting that the cut off date for the sale of new gas boilers had been decided by Boris to be 2040. But it doesn't appear to have been official? You can read about it here: https://www.homebuilding.co.uk/news/gas-boiler-ban

    Then last week, the Government announced a plan to look into hydrogen use more extensively and announced that:
    'We aim to consult later this year on the case for enabling, or requiring, new natural gas boilers to be easily convertible to use hydrogen ('hydrogen-ready') by 2026.'
    So as jpucng62 has said, the sale of gas boilers has not been officially banned yet and the jury is still very much out on what the future plan will be. It would appear that the best solution is to go the hydrogen route if anything, but apparently there aren't any hydrogen boilers available at the moment anyway... so best advice is to sit tight for the technology to develop, for consultations and further announcements.

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  • jpucng62
    replied
    GCH is not being banned only gas boilers - and that's not law yet. The get out clause will be your boiler must be 'hydrogen-ready'.

    As already mentioned, if you install anything other than GCH you are unlikely to achieve the other Govt target - EPC C by 20205 / 8.

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  • ash72
    replied
    The problem is, that if you install a heat/air pump the radiators currently will not supply the same amount of heat as the currently do, therefore you would need to change the radiators for large ones. The only electric heaters which would make sense from an EPC perspective would be high heat retention storage heaters which are expensive.

    I would wait until there is better clarity, if any, as I think the only real offering is if they pump hydrogen to properties which the boilers could run on if they were converted, and would still use the existing infrastructure otherwise that's billions of money gone, which will ultimately mean high bills for everyone.

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  • Neelix
    replied
    Nobody in their right mind would swap from gas heating to electric

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  • JK0
    replied
    Nah. Your EPC rating will be about two letters lower if you do that.

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  • Gas or electric replacement for existing gas central heating systems ?.

    I read somewhere that gas central heating may be banned after 2025 due to CO2 emissions causing climate change.

    Should we be changing over to electric central heating if our gas boiler fails ?

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