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    #16
    They don't have to breach the border though, Moroccans can easily get a pass into the town 🙄 It sounds more like a political row and demonstration than anything.

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      #17
      Originally posted by ram View Post
      UPDATE... NOW 10,000

      Europeans have far outreached their tethers as government's stand by and let our continent be flooded!
      And Ceuta is on the African continent!

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
        I'm always amazed by the idea that people come to the UK rather than France/Germany etc because the "handouts" are better here.
        Most of western Europe has at least as generous benefits system to the UK.

        They keep being moved on and simply run out of places to go.
        It's a lot, lot more complicated than that.

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          #19
          Originally posted by ram View Post


          But NO, these fighting age men go to the best places for free handouts. ( U.K.)
          If they do get in, they try to stay well under the radar.

          They don't just put their hands up and apply for free handouts.

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            #20
            Originally posted by boletus View Post
            It's a lot, lot more complicated than that.
            I agree - I'm not sure this forum is the place to discuss it in more detail, though.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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              #21
              The problem is JP it is one of those things which is impossible to discuss anywhere. We cannot have a grown up conversation without someone being called "racist". Which is why nothing gets done about this issue which whatever your views about illegal immigration is putting intense pressure on local authorities and making the housing situation even worse.
              Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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                #22
                'Illegal immigrants' make little to no difference to the housing crisis. They are not housed by the LA and are under the radar, nor can they claim benefits.

                Those fleeing and seeking safety and refugee status do not claim benefits as you know them either. They are not 'given houses'. They are housed in hostels and immigration centres. They claim a subsistence allowance which is £39 per week. If their claim for refugee status is successful, and it's usually for limited leave to remain rather than indefinite, then they can claim benefits. A huge number are unsuccessful and are returned or remain in the UK under the radar, never being able to claim benefits.

                Yes jpkeates this is probably not a good place to debate this, but when people perpetuate untruths they cannot and should not go unchallenged, because that's how Brexit happened.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by Jon66 View Post
                  Yes jpkeates this is probably not a good place to debate this, but when people perpetuate untruths they cannot and should not go unchallenged, because that's how Brexit happened.
                  I sort of agree with that, but the problem is that it never makes any difference.

                  People who have come to believe things that are not supported by facts in the first place are not going to be persuaded by being presented with facts.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
                    The problem is JP it is one of those things which is impossible to discuss anywhere. We cannot have a grown up conversation without someone being called "racist". Which is why nothing gets done about this issue which whatever your views about illegal immigration is putting intense pressure on local authorities and making the housing situation even worse.
                    I don't see how illegal immigration is putting intense pressure on anyone.

                    As far as I can tell, there are two groups of illegal immigrants, those the authorities know about and those they don't.
                    The first group must be being detained somewhere by the home office and I can't see how the second could access anything from a local authority, let alone a house.

                    An illegal immigrant might be living in a council house, but if they are, they must be living with someone entitled to a council house, so removing them isn't going to free up any housing stock.

                    The only possible "benefit" an illegal immigrant might be able to access is the NHS as far as I can see.

                    This isn't something I'd claim to be an expert on, so I'd be happy to be shown evidence that I'm wrong.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #25
                      See Bede on the welcome provided by King Vortigern.
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Some interesting info from Full Fact:
                        People who have requested asylum are able to get housing assistance while their asylum claim is being assessed if they are destitute. There were just under 32,000 asylum applications made in the year to March 2019. People in the UK illegally are not eligaible for government assistance with housing.
                        and
                        There are about 65 million people living in the UK right now.
                        An estimated 333,000 ended up living here last year, thanks to a near record level of net migration into the UK.
                        If immigrants live in the same size households as the rest of the population, with 2.4 in each household on average, then that means one new household every four minutes for last year. But we don't know a great deal about the actual size of recent immigrant households.

                        It is therefore wrong to say that (whether you consider it a positive or negative thing or a mix of the two) that immigration has no impact on housing stock. Asylum seekers as you can see are eligable for housing whilst being assessed.

                        Talking about this is the grown up and adult thing to do - and not racist!
                        Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                        Comment


                          #27
                          islandgirl Thanks for the information.
                          However, I didn't say that I can't see how immigration has an effect on housing stock, I said illegal immigration, which is a very different thing.

                          I accept that immigration has an impact on housing - people have to live somewhere - but immigration is not the same as illegal immigration and conflating the two causes confusion.
                          I still don't see how an illegal immigrant can have access to housing.

                          And I'd have thought that pretty much by definition asylum seekers are the opposite of illegal immigrants, in that to seek asylum you have to bring yourself to the attention of the authorities and ask to stay.
                          That typically happens at a border when they first arrive.
                          As far as I can tell, asylum seekers have a legal right to be here while their status is assessed.

                          And while checking this, I found that the claims* that people are passing through other EU countries to get to the UK because we're an easy touch, somewhat undone by the fact that many more people seek asylum in Germany (155k), France (129k) and Greece (81k) then the UK (32k).
                          I appreciate the Greek figure is possibly affected by Geography.

                          *Which was not a point made by islandgirl, but this seemed a sensible place to share!
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Yes I agree you did mean illegal immigration. However illegal immigrants who come here for example in dinghies to Dover then claim asylum become asylum seekers with access to housing I assume? And illlegal immigrants have to live somwhere! Yes they do not get housing benefit or universal credit or whatever it is called these days but they do potentially occupy a house....As for the going through other countries thing 32k did pass through safe countries I suppose! As you originally said it is not really the thread for this debate but it is interesting so apologies for continuing it!
                            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                            Comment


                              #29
                              I think illegal immigration can affect the housing stock. My Romanian tenants rented a 3 bed (the 3rd bedroom being downstairs and could be the dining room or office) and stuffed it full of people ie another two couples and a baby. When I confronted them about it they denied anyone else was living there but they'd had friends over to stay. So it would be easy for a legitimate resident to rent a property larger than they need and fill it with illegal residents who can then work for cash - gardeners, plasterers etc.

                              Edit: and then when a legal resident dies they can take over their identity. I know of a girl who died and family members and friends wanted to send one of their daughters over to take over her identity and so live legally in this country.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Until Brexit, anyone caught trying to arrive by dinghy could simply be returned from the country they came from (assuming it was in the EU).
                                That's no longer possible, so, it's now much easier to be able to claim asylum.

                                But the number of people who come across the channel that way is tiny.
                                Most asylum seekers travel here quite legitimately.
                                And asylum seekers aren't illegal immigrants, because asylum seekers have a right to be here.

                                I just don't see how an illegal immigrant could live somewhere that deprives someone else or contributes to a housing shortage (or affects a local authority in any way).

                                As the population of the UK isn't growing naturally as people have fewer children, and is, at the same time, aging, we're going to need more not fewer immigrants, or accept a declining economy.

                                Pre-covid, employment was at it's highest level for decades (probably about as high as it could ever be in percentage terms), so we have plenty of demand for more people - someone in charge just needs to realise that we need to match the incoming number of households with the corresponding number of places for them to live.
                                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                                Comment

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