Off topic - travel corridors.

[buzzard1994]

Dont know where to begin in responding to daft ideas. We are not Sweden - more like America with poor diet, too much obesity and an incompetent leader. Sweden has many times the deaths of its neighbours despite a population who voluntarily follow restrictions British people are too stupid to accept. Sweden has lower rates of obesity and it takes vitamin D deficiency seriously, and eats lots of oily fish. It is doing far worse than its neighbours. We are not Finland either. Yes immunity is not all about antibodies - but for anyone as old as I suspect you are T cells are not terribly effective, For younger people T cells dont activate without adequate vitamin D. You'll find many studies suggesting it is important, the most recent from America suggest that levels need to be higher than currently considered adequate in the Uk. There is even one small study using it as a treatment, with great success.

Yes some people get it badly - I know of one 25 year old who died which is why I bother to spread the news about vitamin D and its likely benefits in reducing severity. There are many people suffering the continuing after effects of Covid, they call it long covid. They can include the so called "mild" cases. Those who survive ICU may require long term rehabilitation.

We are not Sweden - much more like Brazil, with its mass graves, or America, with its high deaths - and not to the end of them by a long way.

The claims that herd immunity can be achieved at low levels is contradicted by the high levels of infection seen in some places like the mumbai slums. We are nowhere near herd immunity, the second wave has started in the north. People can not get tests, the government wont even allow the NHS to buy tests in, they cant test enough staff or patients. That is what happens when you give a job to an incompetent chum, rather than building on existing expertise.

We are also beginning to see reinfection.

Take your vitamin D supplements this winter, stay away from people as much as you can bear, wear a mask when you cant - and next time you can vote - vote out incompetents, because this will not be the last pandemic.

[islandgirl]

Good advice in my humble and not very scientific opinion. However if we are to "vote out incompetants" exactly who would you vote in? How do you imagine Mr Corbyn would have handled the crisis if he had won the last election?

[Chester Perry]

My son was due to start a year at university in korea in September.

When Covid hit we had a few more hurdles to overcome.

Full covid test / certificate and TB test / certificate (within previous 48hrs) had to be supplied with application for student visa in July

On arrival to Seoul in August if presenting no symptoms new arrivals both domestic and foreign were re tested for Covid. If clear they then had to quarantine either at a government facility for 14 days or at their permanent Korean address. He was unable to leave a room with bathroom for next 2 x weeks with an app to order food and provisions which were left outside his door. Here he was temperature tested twice daily.

Korea was back to functioning normally at this time however due to a demo in Seoul by a sect (who were proven spreaders / refused to isolate etc) there was a spike of 200 new cases a change in level was introduced whereby restaurants etc had to shut by 9pm, no mass gatherings etc.

Fast forward to this week and all is back to normal, everything functioning and he's out and about. He is even able to do judo again as everything is back to normal.

I think the success is due to a combination of good leadership who listened to advice and acted when and where needed without fear of financial loss nor upsetting their hedge funds. Note no furlough in Korea paying people to stay at home nor pay self employed to stay at home whilst they still work........I know of several self employed who have struck gold with this.
No eat out to help out which has been abused throughout .....in some already proven cases by places which were shut at start of troubles with owners back in Europe.

A society that is responsible and compliant to rules when a introduced. When things were closed and they were asked they didn't go to raves, have mass protests over history and statues, criminals being killed by police overseas, counter protests over afore mentioned nor did they ignore the rules as "its only my mum, sister, friends that Im seeing".

Personally I am glad that he is where he is as aside from the best interests of health he is able to enjoy being 20 and at university as normal.

[buzzard1994]

Good advice in my humble and not very scientific opinion. However if we are to "vote out incompetants" exactly who would you vote in? How do you imagine Mr Corbyn would have handled the crisis if he had won the last election?

I have no time for Corbyn but the one good thing this government has done was apparently his idea (furlough was sensible if it hadnt been , crassly implemented).. I think he'd have listened to experts and locked down earlier and he wouldnt have been testing his eyesight. Still irrelevant as I dont live in his constituency so I wouldnt have to vote for him at the next election to get rid of incompetents.who give jobs to incompetent chums. Our economy cant cope with that.

[islandgirl]

I am afraid I disagree with just about all of that but this is Coronavirus thread not a polical one and it is wonderful to hear Sir Keir enlighten us with the detail of the actions he would be taking if he were in power along with costings and scientific evidence instead of just moaning that everything is not being done correctly....

[royw]

He isn't the only one who knows what should have been done after the event but is noticeably quiet at the time. It doesn't matter who you vote for a politician always gets in 😕

[Jon66]

Don't you think we all have to think about our attitude to risk and act accordingly. For example we no longer eat out or go to bars, I don't shop for clothes or 'fripperies' anymore, and we don't sit indoors if we are socialising. We carry hand gel and use it after touching anything and try to stay away from other people when food shopping. My partner is a supposed risk due to age but he's fitter, slimmer and healthier than a lot of people half his age. So you have to be responsible for yourselves rather than relying on decisions by an incompetent arse.

[AndrewDod]

Sweden has lower rates of obesity and it takes vitamin D deficiency seriously, and eats lots of oily fish. It is doing far worse than its neighbours.

That is quite simply and utterly untrue. And the critical issue in this whole sorry saga. Sweden is a model for what should have been done. As Churchill said, never has more rubbish been spoken etc etc - and all for political ends and ignoring science.

Test positivity: 2.8%, incredibly low rate in school kids who are probably immune, and absolutely no excess deaths for the past 17 weeks.

Graph below

Ej5yROxXYAAxxR4.png

[royw]

I don't think you can make any meaningful comparison between Sweden and the UK. Sweden has a much lower population density and a higher proportion of people willing to follow the rules. When we have so many people who think their 'rights' are so much more important than some else's life along with police who stand back and watch there's no chance of containing it here. It's noticeable every person I have heard supporting herd immunity is relatively young and healthy.

[buzzard1994]

That is quite simply and utterly untrue. And the critical issue in this whole sorry saga. Sweden is a model for what should have been done. As Churchill said, never has more rubbish been spoken etc etc - and all for political ends and ignoring science.

Test positivity: 2.8%, incredibly low rate in school kids who are probably immune, and absolutely no excess deaths for the past 17 weeks.

Graph below

Ej5yROxXYAAxxR4.png

The graph you would quote if you didnt try to lie with statistics is the one here https://www.statista.com/statistics/...n-the-nordics/

Our governments policy of deliberately spreading the virus has worked so well, hasnt it - economic damage and masses of deaths. Well I guess if you have managed to evade covid you are perfectly happy with that.

Finally America has had the sense to get rid of its incompetent, unfortunately we have no chance to do so for years.

[AndrewDod]

The graph you would quote if you didnt try to lie with statistics is the one here https://www.statista.com/statistics/...n-the-nordics/

Our governments policy of deliberately spreading the virus has worked so well, hasnt it - economic damage and masses of deaths. Well I guess if you have managed to evade covid you are perfectly happy with that.

Finally America has had the sense to get rid of its incompetent, unfortunately we have no chance to do so for years.

That's the most ludicrous thing ever. Problem is it is hard for me (as a scientist working in this very field) to argue with people who bring their political agenda and desires into ever interpretation of every fact.

The UK has immunized around six times as many people as a proportion of its population than the EU, and this fact has also driven the U.K currency to an eight-month high versus the euro in the past week. Our overall death rate from the virus and the consequences of its management are likely to be far lower than those countries too. Strange that you discuss what you want to discuss, and then in a highly distorted manner.

But why bother. Scientific maturity involves listening, and it involves scientific not political agenda-driven responses.

But thank god your idol, Jeremy Corbyn was not in charge of this scenario. The Tories have had their fair share of indecision and also a good dose of frank corruption however - and that's a pretty objective fact too.

[jpkeates]

I'm not a scientist (and obviously not working in this field), but I think that the Swedes themselves have realised that what they were attempting to achieve hasn't worked and that they were pursuing the wrong policy.

And if the more infectious ("UK") strain becomes loose in the population, they're going to have to lock down.

It's impossible to disagree with your views on what might have happened under a Corbyn government, or the criticisms of the incumbents. What was needed was either a strong leader (and I don't know who might have been qualified or acceptable) or a national government.

But, being honest, setting up a national government would probably have caused significant delays all of its own right at the worst point in the crisis.