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    Originally posted by boletus View Post

    Why does it have to be an absolute?
    Why not have more and better and higher quality immigration leading to reduced state pensions/welfare?

    (Damn you JPK and Lagavulin for dragging me into this thread!)
    Because old people don't work? How do you expect to have pensions when there are no younger people to pay for it?

    Comment


      Originally posted by boletus View Post

      Thank feck for that!

      But what a depressing view.

      Why not aim to keep the population relatively constant, openly welcome quality immigration, improve standard of living and give more generous welfare and state pensions to those who genuinely need it?
      How would you manage that? You will always need more younger people at the bottom, in order to have said pensions. If people aren't having kids then the only answer is to have immigrants if you still want pensions, and welfare

      Comment


        Originally posted by Jon66 View Post
        From an ecological view the planet cannot sustain unlimited population growth. We need to have less children.
        The entire world is having fewer and fewer kids. Fertility rates are dropping the fastest in developing countries. That's why by the 22nd century, the global population will decline

        I'm just saying you can't really have pensions without more people however. It's either /or

        Comment


          Originally posted by boletus View Post


          Do non-humans also have pyramid schemes?

          Is this the Bernie Madoff of the Otter World? -

          https://images.app.goo.gl/PRc4epU6jYmA28Av6
          Non humans don't have pensions

          Comment


            Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

            How do you expect to have pensions when there are no younger people to pay for it?
            Private pensions funded from investments built up over a person's working life.

            Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

            How would you manage that? You will always need more younger people at the bottom, in order to have said pensions. If people aren't having kids then the only answer is to have immigrants if you still want pensions, and welfare
            It certainly isn't the only answer and I don't want state pensions and everyone reliant on welfare, I only want it for the very weakest in society.

            Comment


              Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

              Because old people don't work? How do you expect to have pensions when there are no younger people to pay for it?
              I appreciate that the government is operating a ponzi scheme and as far as I'm concerned that's their business. Me personally, I've paid into my state pension for the past 40 years. I've paid for it, me, nobody else!

              Comment


                You've been paying the pensions of those in receipt of state pension. There is no pot of money you've been paying into reserved just for you.

                Think about, when state pension started where was the money coming from? Only then current taxpayers.

                Artful, in receipt of the usual 6 benefits OAPs get, thank you you generous taxpayers you.

                Can you name them? Still, something for those younger than me to look forward to, if you live that long....

                Don't think this has anything to do with subject of this thread, whereas there are closely related matters that do...... oh dear.....
                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                Comment


                  I understand how the system supposedly works, it's a legal ponzi scheme, however I have paid for my pension nobody else. If I hadn't paid I wouldn't get a pension. And if immigration stopped today I would still get my pension.

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by boletus View Post

                    Private pensions funded from investments built up over a person's working life.



                    It certainly isn't the only answer and I don't want state pensions and everyone reliant on welfare, I only want it for the very weakest in society.
                    The "weakest in society" are the eldest, and they're most likely to require welfare in the first place ie: they're most likely to need to use the NHS.
                    You can argue away the pension as "it can be a private pension", but that's only a life support scheme, given there isn't infinite growth elsewhere either.

                    So eventually, you're STILL stuck with a pyramid scheme (Though this time, it's referring to the population of the globe more than anything else)

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by Kape65 View Post
                      I understand how the system supposedly works, it's a legal ponzi scheme, however I have paid for my pension nobody else. If I hadn't paid I wouldn't get a pension. And if immigration stopped today I would still get my pension.
                      You'd still get your pension because younger people are paying for it. If there wasn't "younger people" then you wouldn't get it. Even with private pensions, they can't really last past the 22nd century when the global population is set to decline. Private pension rely on growth, and when economies are losing people by the end of the 21st century (earlier in developed nations), that too becomes a pyramid scheme albeit on a global scale.

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                        You've been paying the pensions of those in receipt of state pension. There is no pot of money you've been paying into reserved just for you.

                        Think about, when state pension started where was the money coming from? Only then current taxpayers.

                        Artful, in receipt of the usual 6 benefits OAPs get, thank you you generous taxpayers you.

                        Can you name them? Still, something for those younger than me to look forward to, if you live that long....

                        Don't think this has anything to do with subject of this thread, whereas there are closely related matters that do...... oh dear.....
                        This is especially true, given that if they DID pay into a pot just for them, then by the time they're old, the money is worthless.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

                          This is especially true, given that if they DID pay into a pot just for them, then by the time they're old, the money is worthless.
                          Only if they didn't invest it (and monitor it to make sure it's keeping on track).

                          If I'd invested all the money I've had to pay into state pensions, I'd be buying a Bentley at retirement age, not claiming a free bus pass.

                          Comment


                            Originally posted by boletus View Post

                            Only if they didn't invest it (and monitor it to make sure it's keeping on track).

                            If I'd invested all the money I've had to pay into state pensions, I'd be buying a Bentley at retirement age, not claiming a free bus pass.
                            Then why didn't you? The state pension isn't forced on you.

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

                              Then why didn't you? The state pension isn't forced on you.
                              Class 1 NIC's are compulsory. I'll certainly be drawing the state pension when I can but I could and have made far better investments elsewhere.

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by an0nymous View Post

                                The "weakest in society" are the eldest, and they're most likely to require welfare in the first place ie: they're most likely to need to use the NHS.
                                ....................
                                Interesting you seem to suggest NHS usage is a "benefit". (I'd not argue with you..)

                                Being aged 73, I object to be described as the "weakest in society": The e.g. poor, the sick, the homeless, the abused, the downtrodden I'd consider some or most, sadly for them, usually weaker than many of the elderly. But not all.

                                An awful lot of older people (not all, no, not all, some are in a tough unpleasant place) are often with comfortable pensions (I have 5), assets, savings etc etc with family support, decent and decent sized housing (often too big). And lets not forget the elderly (well, those lucky enough to survive) have largely been 1st in queue for Covid vaccines. But no, not all, not all.

                                With covid I'm acutely aware the elderly have arguably had a better deal than those younger. Sorry folks, not my decision.

                                Is being anonymous an indication of weakness, please? (A question, not an accusation..)

                                Best wishes to all:
                                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                                Comment

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