Brexit

[theartfullodger]

Anyone care to list the genuine, actually worth something, different from what we had in the EU benefits of Brexit please?? I obviously fully appreciate many people genuinely wish to leave the EU, for a variety of reasons, completely respect those views, but am merely asking what tangible benefits come with exit, please?



Best wishes to all.

[islandgirl]

I think we Brexiteers are just fed up of that question Artful - it is everywhere even now. You actually know the answers but just don't agree with them, which is fine. We have been debating it for 4 years...better things to do now. Just hoping Boris stands firm...I love agreeing to disagree - it makes the world go round!

[jpkeates]

The reason brexiteers are fed up of the question is that no one has ever come up with any credible answer.
All of the answers offered are lies or false statements made in ignorance.

The only people who will benefit in any way from Brexit are hedge funds and rich landonwers.
And the benefits are mostly one off, so we'll be back in the EU in a few years (without all of the positives we negotiated over the last 40 odd years).

[islandgirl]

Again the prejudice "lies" "false statements made in ignorance" etc - this is why we have had enough.

[jpkeates]

Again the prejudice "lies" "false statements made in ignorance" etc - this is why we have had enough.

It's not prejudice, it's something that's happened repeatedly since 2016.

No one can make any rational assertion about something that's going to be better next year than it was last year, and so everyone responds in the same way - "we're tired of being asked the same question" or "we answered already" or "it's typical project fear" or "you lost, get over it".

Let's be very specific.
We know (as a minimum) that some (maybe lots) of truck drivers will need a new document to allow them into Kent from January.
So there's one definite negative effect of Brexit - it might be tiny and the inconvenience might be limited to applying for a permit online and downloading it, but it's a change and it's something new that people will have to do that they didn't have to do before.

Can someone give me one real and positive thing arising from Brexit that offsets that single (and relatively limited) negative?
A specific and actual improvement - which can be as small as the best case I've described above
(if things go as I expect, the inconvenience won't be tiny at all, but let's stick to knowns).

There isn't one.
Unless you're a hedge fund gambling on it being a disaster or a corporation trying to avoid new regulations coming to the EU in the next few years.

[islandgirl]

30 years in export sales and marketing...started by filling in customs documents many years ago... it is not a big deal. As for the rest, deja entendu...

[jpkeates]

And for all of those 30 years, we were in the EU (or whatever the initials were at various times).

Most people have never experienced much adult life outside the EU, so it's what's normal.
And if they have, they're retired now, so work doesn't matter to them very much.

No benefit anyone can think of?
Doesn't have to be a new one, just point me at a link with a tangible (and real) benefit.

[Kape65]

Unfortunately when people talk of being better off they tend to mean financially. I'm not sure why as a country we need to constantly chase an increase in GDP. It's like a ponzi scheme. We need more jobs to increase GDP, for that we seem to need more workers who need more housing and more health care which costs more to produce which means we need to increase GDP! We can be better off without being richer.

[royw]

Yachts are movable - why not sail it somewhere else?
The biggest benefit should be that we stop importing millions of people. Only Bozo (or perhaps Princess Nut Nuts) seems to think we'll just import them from outside the EU instead. Wouldn't it be nice if we weren't turning our countryside into a vast building site.

[islandgirl]

And for all of those 30 years, we were in the EU (or whatever the initials were at various times).

Ah yes but countries existed OUTSIDE the EU...I know it is hard to grasp but they did (and they surprisingly still do). And some needed customs forms.

[jpkeates]

Yachts are movable - why not sail it somewhere else?
The biggest benefit should be that we stop importing millions of people. Only Bozo (or perhaps Princess Nut Nuts) seems to think we'll just import them from outside the EU instead. Wouldn't it be nice if we weren't turning our countryside into a vast building site.

Before the pandemic changed everything, we had a growing economy creating new jobs and a shrinking and ageing population.
While automation helps, immigration is the only solution for that (otherwise the economic growth stops).

Fewer EU immigrants simply means more from elsewhere.

The UK was extremely unusual in Europe because the effects of the, generally, ageing "born here" population were offset by the influx of younger people from the EU (and their lovely tax) and the fact that our social services were a smaller part of government spending that elsewhere, so the elderly were less of a burden.

The pandemic has interrupted that, but the government strategy post Brexit is for rapid economic growth, which will require greater immigration once more.

[jpkeates]

Ah yes but countries existed OUTSIDE the EU...I know it is hard to grasp but they did (and they surprisingly still do). And some needed customs forms.

My brother works in international logistics.

The paperwork and admin required for non-EU transports massively exceeds the equivalent work required for intra-EU transports.
Lots of UK imports and exports are being replaced with non-UK equivalents because the price benefit is eroded by the increased work involved - and if tariffs are introduced a great deal of the UK business will simply stop.

Which does reduce the paperwork.

[islandgirl]

Supply and demand, supply and demand...

[royw]

Why do we need an ever increasing economy? GDP per capita hasn't changed so yes, some people have done well but many are worse off. The divide has never been greater. Many, many people are in jobs that are beneath their ability. Instead of retraining older workers employers just use a younger, ready trained immigrant. Try getting job if you're over 50, even harder if your skill is obsolete.
Remember the days before mass immigration when you could get your child into the school you chose, a doctor's appointment in less than a fortnight and a road that wasn't a car park?
Personally I would rather have less money and a nicer, less crowded environment. Mass immigration is just so shortsighted.

[jpkeates]

Remember the days before mass immigration when you could get your child into the school you chose, a doctor's appointment in less than a fortnight and a road that wasn't a car park?

I was born in the 1960s and I don't remember a time when the first two were true (unless you lived in a village).
There are a lot more cars than houses with usable garages now, though.