Brexit

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Wait and see. I think we may all be surprised...
    Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

    Comment


      Boris Johnson has urged MPs to back a general election for December 12, in an attempt to break the Brexit deadlock.
      https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50174402

      Parliament is dissolved 25 working days before a general election at a minute past midnight.

      The question has to be- "Why does the PM (Boris) keep trying to shut down parliament?"

      This is the third time he's tried it recently.

      Comment


        He is not trying to shut it down he is trying to let the people have their say. The Labour party are running scared as they know many of them will be out on their ear...ask yourself why we are not being allowed to have our say at the ballot box
        Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

        Comment


          Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
          He is not trying to shut it down he is trying to let the people have their say.
          No he is not.
          If Johnson wanted to allow the people to have their say on Brexit he would allow another referendum.
          He wants a general election because he thinks that this will help the Conservatives to force Brexit through regardless of whether it is what the majority actually want (and unfortunately he is probably right).


          Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
          The Labour party are running scared as they know many of them will be out on their ear...ask yourself why we are not being allowed to have our say at the ballot box
          The Labour Party have said that they will support a general election as long as the possibility of leaving the EU with 'no deal' is taken off the table. They aren't "running scared", the intention is to protect the UK from the worst case scenarios of Brexit. In other words, they are performing their duties as elected MPs.

          Of course, what we should really be asking is why the Conservatives want a general election instead of a referendum?
          Perhaps it's because they think that they can win a general election (which they probably can) but don't think that a referendum would come out favouring Brexit.

          The Tories would claim winning a majority in a general election is a "mandate" for whatever form of Brexit they want to push through, when the reality is that they could very easily win a significant majority in a general election even if the majority of those who vote in the election are remain supporters.

          Comment


            A sad little argument against democracy there Mac - deny the people a Election - sounds like South America. Let Corbyn and the Lib Dems win at the ballot box and there is almost certainly going to be a Referendum mark 2. They can stand on that platform. If people want another Referendum they will vote for them, simple as that. What are the Remainers so scared of - ah yes, democracy....Let us see what Monday brings,
            Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

            Comment


              We haven't had an election in the middle of winter since 1910.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                It's not an argument against democracy at all, islandgirl.

                It's very simple, a general election will not tell the government (whoever that might end up being) what the majority of voters want regarding Brexit.

                Even if we assume that everyone chooses their vote in a general election based solely on whether or not they want to leave the EU (which just isn't going to happen because general elections aren't decided on single issues), the majority of seats in parliament can very easily be won by parties that support Brexit, even if majority opinion is to remain (or vice-versa).
                In addition, a general election win for a party supporting Brexit doesn't tell us how those who want to leave the EU want to leave.

                For example, if we assume that all votes for the conservatives, the Brexit Party and UKIP are votes for Brexit, and all votes for any other party/candidate are votes against Brexit (already an oversimplification), 300 of the 650 seats in the house of commons could (hypothetically) be won by parties that stand against Brexit, with an average of 60% of votes in those constituencies going to anti-Brexit parties - and these seats might be split between several parties.
                The remaining 350 seats might only get an average of 55% of the vote for Brexit supporting parties - but almost all of these 350 seats might be won by the Conservatives (perhaps with an average of 35-45% of the vote in each constituency.
                If we assume that the average number of voters in each constituency is similar, with the above result, which would give the conservatives a comfortable majority in the house of commons, only 48.1% of voters would have voted for pro-Brexit parties, while 51.9% would have voted for parties that stood against Brexit - and a result with that sort of percentage result is (supposedly) a decisive mandate that it would be undemocratic to go against.

                Comment


                  In 2016, no one gave a monkeys about the EU apart from a very small minority of people.
                  When surveyed, the public cared a lot about the NHS and immigration and the EU barely registered.

                  So having a referendum was pointless, because when people are asked a question they have an opinion and because they weren't that interested, they didn't bother to research or even think about it much.

                  The leave campaign made the issue about the NHS and Immigration, which people did care about. Unsurprisingly, people wanted to save the NHS and wanted fewer immigrants.

                  Ironically, for those who cared most about immigration, leaving the EU will increase the numbers of immigrants who (like our passports) are seen as the wrong colour. And leaving the EU harms the NHS

                  People still don't care about the EU and if we decided to stay in it, there won't be riots, there'll be some isolated local protests from a few lunatic right wingers and then we'll move on, muttering.

                  Almost no one still knows anything about the EU and how it works or affects us. But it's got to the point where there's no longer any kind of rational approach. No one can compromise or change their mind. It's like religion.

                  We need to leave without no deal, so we need to agree on a transition deal we can live with and move on.

                  And I don't see a general election delivering that.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by nukecad View Post
                    The question has to be- "Why does the PM (Boris) keep trying to shut down parliament?"
                    I'll answer my own question.
                    1. He tried to shut down parliament for 5 weeks as 'preparation' for a Queens speech.
                    2. When that didn't work he almost immediately tried to get a recess for the Conservative Party Conference.
                    3. Now he wants to call a general election and shut parliament down for 25 days.
                    The great suspicion/conclusion is that he is trying to push Brexit through while parliament is not sitting, denying MPs due scrutiny of what he is doing.

                    The other parties can see through this, which is why they have been resisting his previous calls for anything that would mean a recess, including a general election.

                    They are not 'running scared', they are simply trying to prevent this current Government from riding rough-shod over Parliamentary procedure.

                    Discussion about whether to have a new referendum or a general election become meaningless if the Government manage to push through Brexit, without due scrutiny, before either of those things could happen.

                    As Iam Flemming wrote in Goldfinger:
                    "Once is happenstance, twice is coincidence, the third time it's enemy action."

                    (Interestingly as I'm typing this a government advertisement has come on TV still telling us to "Get ready for Brexit on the 31st October").

                    Comment


                      So Bojo is demanding a general election because the public can't possibly want what they voted for way way back in 2017...

                      - However they definitely haven't changed their minds about what they voted for in 2016.
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        We haven't had an election in the middle of winter since 1910.
                        Not true, there have been loads!

                        Comment


                          I was wrong/
                          Last December general election was 1926.

                          I shouldn't trust twitter!
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            Juncker makes it clear, in his farewell speech, that the EU’s purpose is to destroy the nation state,
                            e.g. Britain, France, Italy, ect.
                            Anyone who wants to leave the E.U. will be destroyed. And anyone who is in Europe who does not
                            join, will be destroyed.The E.U. Empire strikes back.

                            see https://telegra.ph/file/0ca749fd5424670c6ec62.mp4

                            Comment


                              Have been missing the fun here whilst away for the weekend. Glad to see the old racist stereotypes emerging "Ironically, for those who cared most about immigration, leaving the EU will increase the numbers of immigrants who (like our passports) are seen as the wrong colour" plus many other hilarious snippits...I should not go away too much it only encourages you!
                              Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                              Comment


                                Originally posted by nukecad View Post
                                The great suspicion/conclusion is that he is trying to push Brexit through while parliament is not sitting, denying MPs due scrutiny of what he is doing.

                                They are not 'running scared', they are simply trying to prevent this current Government from riding rough-shod over Parliamentary procedure
                                Interestingly this has been confirmed today:

                                https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-50199682
                                the SNP will block attempts by the government to seek an election on 12 December under the Fixed-term Parliaments Act as it allows the prime minister to "force through his devastating Brexit deal and take the UK out of the EU".

                                Comment

                                Latest Activity

                                Collapse

                                Working...
                                X