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    Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
    wow. That is shocking
    No it isn't.

    What it says is that as part of the Withdrawal Agreement the UK agreed to continue to pay into the EIB - because the Withdrawal agreement has an interim period, during which the UK continues to trade with the EU on a similar basis to now, and agrees to contribute, broadly as now, in exchange.

    There's nothing remotely weird or unusual about that.

    Moreover, no one has any idea who agreed the specific terms, or why they did it.
    Most of the then cabinet claim that essentially Theresa May kept them in the dark and the deal was put together by the Civil Service (which is part of its job) and presented to the cabinet as a done deal.

    So there's no evidence that Philip Hammond was responsible for any part of the deal, including the payments into the Bank, and no evidence at all of why he might have done it if he had.
    So the writer is speculating about why someone might have done something they might not have done at all.

    You could have written exactly the same article with Theresa May's name instead of Philip Hammond and it would have made as much sense and been just as likely.
    And, as that deal is probably dead, making any claim about it at all is pointless.

    So why was it written and what does it hope to achieve is about all that's interesting about it.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      Except that who actually did it is not the point....
      Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

      Comment


        start trying to explain how staying in the EU will benefit us in the light of their avowed desire for ever closer union, their difficulties with the Euro, the european economic crisis, the power of unelected officials (and don't give me the "but they are" argument as I will raise you von der Leyen and more), the soaring unemployment figures, leaders who wish to make us a colony (yes he said it - it is on camera), their out of control budget, their new plans for an army
        That's a no brainer.
        Compare the Economy of the UK in 1970's (sick man of Europe, 3 day week etc) with now, 5th largest in the world.
        Being in the EU's hardly held us back.

        No one cares about unelected officials (we have a civil service in the UK). No one can name a single thing foisted on the UK by an unelected official.
        We're not in the Euro, so any economic crisis in Europe only affects us as much as any economic crisis in our largest trading neighbour does - we haven't bailed out Greece or anyone else.
        We have the highest employment since records began and have a massive shortage of people to do available jobs, so we desperately need more immigration. UK unemployment is probably as low as it can go unless someone changes how it's calculated.
        And you'd think by now, with all the intellect and motivation available, someone would have found some compelling evidence that the EU has any actual plan for an army (which we could veto if it existed).
        The EU budget is no more out of control than the budget of the UK, the US or China. Economies are never "under control".

        If you're going to argues we have to run because the sky is falling, you need to show some evidence that it's actually falling.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          I think the above rather proves my point. All hail the perfect EU - all is well there, and all will be well. I admire that happy attitude to life. Must be a nice world to live in! And as for no plans - seems Mr Junker is off message "“A joint EU army would show the world that there would never again be a war between EU countries,” Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper. “Such an army would also help us to form common foreign and security policies and allow Europe to take on responsibility in the world.”

          a wee edit as I just saw this:
          The next European Commission, to be led by Ursula von der Leyen, will almost certainly not be able to take office as scheduled at the start of next month, after the European Parliament on Thursday overwhelmingly rejected Sylvie Goulard, the French nominee to be commissioner responsible for the EU's internal market, industrial policy and defense.

          Compounding von der Leyen's problems, Romania's government collapsed, making it unclear when Bucharest would be able to replace its Commission nominee, Rovana Plumb, who has also been rejected by the Parliament.

          The rejection of Goulard, herself a former member of the European Parliament, was a stunning and embarrassing blow for French President Emmanuel Macron, who put her forward despite clear vulnerabilities, including investigations in Brussels and Paris over alleged financial misconduct.

          Macron had also used his own political muscle to ensure the prominent, sprawling, portfolio for Goulard oversaw the internal market — the rules and regulations of the European economy — as well as industrial and defense policy, two top priorities for Paris.
          Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

          Comment


            Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
            I think the above rather proves my point. All hail the perfect EU - all is well there, and all will be well. I admire that happy attitude to life. Must be a nice world to live in! And as for no plans - seems Mr Junker is off message "“A joint EU army would show the world that there would never again be a war between EU countries,” Juncker told the Welt am Sonntag newspaper. “Such an army would also help us to form common foreign and security policies and allow Europe to take on responsibility in the world.”
            And that was in 2015. The UK and France said they weren't interested, and the idea went nowhere.
            People are forever suggesting different things, but there's a perfectly functioning way of stopping daft ideas going ahead.

            Whenever anyone raised issues about being in the EU my first thought was "what's wrong with how we are now?" and, so far, no one has come up with a single issue that won't persist (or may get worse) post exit.

            Well, to be fair, my first thought was usually, but that's nothing to do with the EU, because it usually wasn't and isn't.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              We're really stuck now, aren't we?

              There's no way that the House of Commons is going to vote for a deal, even if Johnson can get one.
              I can't see how he can not request an extension without being sent to prison.
              I can't see that there's any way of avoiding a general election, and I can't see any single party winning one.
              If we have another election remain would probably win, which is hardly helpful unless it's hugely decisive (which I can't see either) - and then what, best of three?

              The best outcome might be for the EU to give a very long extension, just to make the issue less time consuming for them, and leave us to try and sort out our internal political mess.
              And I don't think the EU will do that either.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                There is no way we Leavers would accept a long delay. The simple answer is a Brexit election. Unlike you JP I believe it will be more decisive that the last and there will be a majority which can make things happen.
                Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                Comment


                  The length of the extension is in the control of the EU, there's a majority in parliament against no deal and they'd accept any extension offered to avoid no deal.

                  What has happened since 2017 to make you think that it will be more decisive?

                  Because they've committed to remain, the Lib Dems will pick up a fair number of votes and the Brexit party are likely to do the same if they pick their battles.
                  That's got to eat into the two major parties vote, and Corbyn's unpopular and Johnson's terrible in public, which won't help them either.

                  Parliament would be even more split than now, with no obvious government possible.


                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    I still do not think so JP but only time will tell
                    Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                    Comment


                      Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
                      I still do not think so JP but only time will tell
                      It's a rainy Sunday and everything seems a little bleak.

                      Still, one day, we'll look back on this and laugh.
                      And by laugh, I mean put several senior politicians in prison...
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment


                        One can but hope! I think however our Traitor lists will contain different sets of names!
                        Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                        Comment


                          31st Oct isn't that far off Guy Fawkes night.

                          Comment


                            I'm not suggesting anyone is a traitor.
                            That kind of inflammatory (and incorrect) terminology doesn't help anyone.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              Nor does a sense of humour bypass! Sad that people can no longer smile through adversity and laugh at each other....
                              Last edited by islandgirl; 14-10-2019, 15:50 PM. Reason: can't be bothered diverting the thread down another pathway regarding language....
                              Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

                              Comment


                                It's almost impossible to tell what is actually going to happen if we No deal Brexit. We are only going to find out when it actually happens.

                                My personal thought is that for some of us, we won't notice any difference, not initially anyway. it will be small gradual changes that will cause considerably bigger problems down the line.

                                So maybe no-one loses their job, but a slightly stagnating economy means that people don't get payrises over the next year. We still get all the products on our supermarket shelves, but they are fractionally more expensive than before. To you and me this will have little effect, but to those that are living on the breadline who currently live paycheck to paycheck it could be the difference between survival and starving.

                                Britain will muddle on. We will have the exact same arguments but find a different boogeyman to blame. though I expect it would be deemed as the EU's fault if our economy does get worse. I'm sure that those in government will be able to get at least another 10 years of deflection off the EU.

                                But for those who now find themselves with little money available have to make a choice. pay the bills or eat and thus it might then affect us a few years down the line. When we see more people defaulting on their rent. We daren't have people leave as tenants can no longer afford the amounts we are requesting and we may not get anyone back in.

                                I am very concerned about what the future holds. I don't see leaving as being any benefit and us gaining anything that we did not already have.

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