It is interesting how Remainers always think they are intellectually superior to Leavers and accuse them of "not understanding" things. Many of us do understand and have researched many issues in depth before adopting our position on Brexit; My expectations are modest and realistic but I know that we must never sign the withdrawal agreement if any of them are to be realized. As I say, if you believe in the all powerful, all generous, all benevolent EU then I am happy for you. The rest of us saw through it long ago.
Brexit
Collapse
X
-
Originally posted by Stacker View PostThey used to call Britain "Treasure Island", now its all been sold off...what on earth do we own anymore?
What is the fascination with the fishing industry? It's less than half of one percent of our economy. It's mostly made up of quota owners who sell them so that other people can use them.
We haven't been self sufficient in food since the industrial revolution.
Most of our economy is services, not manufacturing.
For most of the period where he's citing losses and declines, his party was in charge. Teachers being sacked and reduced bin collections is his party's policy.
He's one of the stupidest people I have ever heard - he's as thick as mince with a posh accent.
When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by Kape65 View PostI live in a leave voting area (64% I think). I guess the majority of my neighbours don't feel like things can get any worse for them than it already is so it's not about what is the most profitable option it's about being free to make our own choices.
In my area it is largely xenophobia and the false belief that the EU is to blame for all the UK's problems that seems to be behind the leave vote - as well as (in some people) a belief that everything will almost instantly be OK as soon as we leave.
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostIt is interesting how Remainers always think they are intellectually superior to Leavers and accuse them of "not understanding" things.
What I said is that many leave voters show that they don't understand certain things - that is a fact.
What I didn't do is claim intellectual superiority - even the brightest intellectual minds will ofter fail to understand subjects that they either haven't looked into, or where they are unable to overcome their own biases (for examples of that you only have to look at some of the top scientists, more often than not Americans, who reject evolution because they have never understood the science because of their religious beliefs).
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostMany of us do understand and have researched many issues in depth before adopting our position on Brexit; My expectations are modest and realistic but I know that we must never sign the withdrawal agreement if any of them are to be realized. As I say, if you believe in the all powerful, all generous, all benevolent EU then I am happy for you. The rest of us saw through it long ago.
Your main 'complaint' seems to be the idea that we won't get a deal that favours the UK if we agree to a withdrawal agreement. The reality is that we won't get a deal that favours the UK over the EU under any circumstances.
The type of deal that most leavers seem to want (free, or practically free, trade with the EU without the UK having to follow any rules and regulations set by the EU if we don't want to, and without free movement of people) is a pipe dream that will never happen.
What type of deal do you personally think the EU should offer the UK?
Comment
-
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostI love your sense of humour Artful. I prefer dog. Watch out Rover....
https://www.manxforums.com/forums/up...2e0be3e3dd.pngI am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...
Comment
-
Originally posted by jpkeates View PostJohn Redwood really is a moron isn't he?
Most of our economy is services, not manufacturing.
Money IN must exceed Money OUT. or you go bankrupt !
Manufacturing ( via exports ) brought money in.
Now we have considerably less money coming in, and NOW WE HAVE TO GIVE AWAY 36 MILLION A DAY to the E.U.
In 2018 the UK made an estimated gross contribution (after the rebate) of £13.2 billion
( £ 36 million a DAY )
( https://researchbriefings.parliament.uk/ResearchBriefing/Summary/CBP-7886 )
If you don't export to get money in, where does the £ 36 million a day come from ?
Keep giving your money to another country, when next to none is coming in , and you run out of money, just like Argentina, when the public's money was frozen and TAKEN to finance the debt they had.
Can't pay your debts, and the countries assets are "taken".
Britain is in debt over it's head, and one day, the I.M.F. or whoever, will call in the loan, ( even if we are out of the E.U.as we still can't afford to pay back our loans.)
Britain is more in debt now, than before joining the E.U. .. So we have been lied to when people say we are better off in the E.U... LIES, DAM LIES. And we all have to pay for it by reduced services.
- 1 like
Comment
-
I knew it wasn't Artful, but it is funny to me how dramatic Project Fear has become! Good cartoon though.
Macromia - you must be the biggest fan of the withdrawal agreement ever. Hotel California - you check into it but can never leave....well not without the EUs permission anyway. It is not a complicated concept though you seem to struggle with it. I give up - if you think it is a good thing then be my guest. Those of us who know will continue to worry that the government may bring it back minus the backstop.Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me
Comment
-
I think it's understandable in a way IG. Anyone under 50 won't remember not being in the EU. Did you ever hear the poem: ' Jim, Who Ran away from his Nurse, and was Eaten by a Lion' ?
It ends with the lines:And always keep a-hold of Nurse
For fear of finding something worse.
- 1 like
Comment
-
Absolutely JKO - Yes I have heard that and it rings true in our situation. Fear that we cannot survive in the big bad world. One of my kids is about to go to uni. Yes he is nervous of what it may be like and apprehensive about the huge step of leaving home - yet he has a huge opportunity to have fabulous experiences and gain a degree which will steer him towards a fantastic career. The Remainer version of my son would turn down his place and stay at home just in case. I suppose we should be understanding of their fear. It is not like we ever travelled abroad before the EU. And I cannot imagine how the farm workers used to come here on work visas for the summer then toddle off home happy with their wages. There was never cross border employment before the glorious EU....Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me
- 1 like
Comment
-
Originally posted by theartfullodger View PostBlue passports, Rat for lunch.
https://www.thefirstnews.com/article...in-poland-6592
Comment
-
Originally posted by ram View PostYou forget that running a county is the same as running a business.
Money IN must exceed Money OUT. or you go bankrupt !
Businesses come and go all the time, nations persist.
Nations can live with perpetual debt and "trade" at a loss - the USA has a national debt of $22.5 trillion dollars.
That can never be paid back - it's so well established that it gets bought and sold like shares.
Nations can just create currency or borrow without security (the worse the situation of the nation, the higher the cost of borrowing, but no one says no).
Many of the worst and most harmful decisions are made by governments who think that running a national economy is like running a company or a household.
We've got a policy of austerity that's driving working people to food banks, trying to balance books that can't be and don't need to be balanced.
When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).
Comment
-
Originally posted by jpkeates View PostRunning a country is nothing like running a business.
The U.S.A. and U.K. have massive loans, with massive interest payments, which you and i are paying for.
The government has no money themselves, as it's our money they take from us to pay for services, hospitals and interest payments. ( just like freeholders of leased buildings ).
Comment
-
I know that countries pay interest on their loans (I even mentioned that in my post - that the cost of borrowing varies with the situation the country finds itself in).
But the UK can't go out of business or become bankrupt like a company (and if it did start to wobble, the impact on the pound would probably undermine the debt, because we usually borrow in GBP against bonds).
It can change the value of its currency, which a business can't do.
They're fundamentally different economic concepts.
When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).
Comment
-
Originally posted by jpkeates View Postthe UK can't go out of business or become bankrupt like a company
I have already stated that Argentina went bankrupt, and people could not get their cash out of the banks.
Zimbabwe . In June 2019, the official inflation rate was 97.9%. Because the country is bankrupt.
In June 2009, the rate of inflation was 90 sextillion percent. Prices rose tenfold every day !
Mid-July 2019 inflation had increased to 175%
Info.
Zimbabwe hyperinflation began when president Robert Mugabe embarked on an Economic Structural Adjustment Programme in which the land of white farmers was forcibly taken and given to blacks who did not know how to farm.
Production plunged and capital flight (money and white flight) began. Unemployment rose to 80%.
( So we assume food now has to be imported, and Zimbabwe money is worth next to nothing.)
They even had a 100 trillion dollar bank note ( worth about $ 40 usd )
see https://editorial.azureedge.net/misc...9261962385.jpg
I repeat, countries go bankrupt.
I am not talking out of my arse.
- 1 like
Comment
-
But Argentina didn't go bankrupt in the sense that a company did.
Argentina is still there, it recovered and has repaid most of the debt it initially defaulted on.
Again, Zimbabwe is currently restructuring its currency and debt.
Newspapers and other media talk about a country being bankrupt, but when someone like Woolworth's goes bankrupt it ceases to exist (or is bought for peanuts).
Argentina defaulted in billions of dollars of interest payments, but it restructured its economy (like Zimbabwe did recently it introduced an entirely new currency to allow people to buy stuff while the main currency was worthless).
Woolworths couldn't create a whole new currency or borrow from the IMF when no one else would loan them money.
When a country's economy goes into crisis, the effects (as you point out) are usually hyper inflation and the immediate impact is on its people.
But it can get support that no company can, because the economic world can't afford to lose an Argentina or Zimbabwe, it can afford any number of Woolworths to vanish.
And I wouldn't ever accuse someone with whom I am having a debate of talking out of their arse!
When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).
Comment
-
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostMacromia - you must be the biggest fan of the withdrawal agreement ever.
Withdrawing from the EU at all is not in the best interests of the UK, but if we are going to do so (despite the fact that there are no clear benefits from leaving - at least, none that 'leave' supporters seem able to provide and justify) leaving with a withdrawal deal in place, like the one that was negotiated, is far, far preferable than leaving without any sort of a deal.
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostHotel California - you check into it but can never leave....well not without the EUs permission anyway. It is not a complicated concept though you seem to struggle with it. I give up - if you think it is a good thing then be my guest. Those of us who know will continue to worry that the government may bring it back minus the backstop.
It really _isn't_ a complicated concept. It is a _temporary_ agreement that is supposed to be in place only to minimise disruption while more permanent agreements are negotiated.
Originally posted by islandgirl View PostFear that we cannot survive in the big bad world. One of my kids is about to go to uni. Yes he is nervous of what it may be like and apprehensive about the huge step of leaving home - yet he has a huge opportunity to have fabulous experiences and gain a degree which will steer him towards a fantastic career. The Remainer version of my son would turn down his place and stay at home just in case. I suppose we should be understanding of their fear. It is not like we ever travelled abroad before the EU. And I cannot imagine how the farm workers used to come here on work visas for the summer then toddle off home happy with their wages. There was never cross border employment before the glorious EU....
Sure, there will likely be a minority of remain supporters who are ill-informed and may therefore believe that the UK cannot survive outside of the EU, but that is _NOT_ what most think.
Objections to leaving the EU are typically _NOT_ because of 'fear' of what might happen, because remain supporters think that we can't survive without the EU, or because they are apprehensive about the unknown.
The majority of remain supporters do not want to leave the EU because _the evidence_ is that there is no benefit from doing so, there will almost certainly be some negatives (although not the extreme negatives that seem to be quoted more by 'leavers' than by 'remainers'), and there will definitely be at least some disruption if we leave with no withdrawal deal in place.
It is _not_ that we are 'scared' of change, it's that there is no point in going through _any_ negatives and/or disruption (well, no more than we are _already_ experiencing), however slight, if no genuine benefits can be seen to be likely to be achieved.
Your 'going to university analogy' is an extremely poor comparison. In that situation there is very clear evidence that there are real benefits from leaving home for the first time and going to university to study. There is uncertainty, and there will be problems that need to be overcome - but the potential benefits are clear to see.
All that leave supporters need to do in order to convince the majority of 'remainers' that we should go ahead and leave the EU is _provide evidence that there really are benefits from leaving that are realistic and outweigh the negatives._
Comment
Latest Activity
Collapse
-
by jessa46Has anyone else heard about the 'reset' and that we won't be allowed to have money in the bank or multiple properties? It does sound far-fetched but I would have laughed in the face of anyone who said we'd have lockdowns etc, this time last year.
-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
22-11-2020, 12:05 PM -
-
by JK0Saw this, this evening, which was interesting:
The Underlying Fiction and Objectives Behind the Creation of the Covid Crisis and the Great Reset
https://brandnewtube.com/watch/the-u...6AWi32oom.html-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
27-02-2021, 23:29 PM -
-
by CodgerHow do you turn it off .. It corrected firedoors to fireflies. Wire became wife and hook became book!
-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
25-02-2021, 20:37 PM -
-
Reply to Maddening spellcheckby CodgerThanks nuke now I can make my own mistakes ..... It was the fire tablets stupid spell check. Now I just need a smaller finger!
-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
27-02-2021, 09:36 AM -
-
by Anna1985Just reading the news - re Boris generation rent to become generation buy.
Could somebody please explain to me how is it going to help a currently furloughed travel agent?...-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
27-02-2021, 07:42 AM -
-
Reply to Maddening spellcheckby nukecadI don't believe there is a spellchecker/autocorrect on the forum itself.
It will be your device, or possibly in the browser you are using.
For instance if I'm posting from my phone then the phones spellcheck kicks in, posting from my laptop no spellcheck.
PS.There's...-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
26-02-2021, 14:21 PM -
-
Reply to Unconscious humour from postersby nukecadIt's one of those days:
Maybe try having 1m of waist pipe removed?...-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
19-02-2021, 16:40 PM -
-
by jtaIt seems to me there is a lot of unconscious humour here, the latest one for me is...........
Of course I know what he means but his brain seems to be running faster than his typing
Can I suggest that we post them here when we spot them....-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
01-08-2012, 17:16 PM -
-
Reply to Unconscious humour from postersby nukecadSo many in that one post:
I'd see a doctor mate.
Eek!
Similar to a birthday suit?...-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
19-02-2021, 10:16 AM -
-
by CodgerMy neighbour is cutting blocks for their drive and making big dustclouds. Luckily for me the wind is blowing it away but if it was not I would be breathing cement dust and my car would be smothered as well. Is there a wet dustfree way to cut up blocks?
-
Channel: Take a Break - for the less serious!
18-02-2021, 14:20 PM -
Comment