Brexit

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    One of the problems with politics (and I'm referring both to the parties/candidates and to the beliefs of the voters) is that people think that they have to be strongly on one side or another, when the reality is that the middle ground is best for most issues.

    That doesn't mean 'sitting on the fence' as Corbyn has done on the Brexit issue though. If a centralist position is best for the country, then that is what the politicians should be supporting (and what I would hope that voters would chose).

    However, in the case of Brexit there isn't really any acceptable compromise. The choices are "In" or "Out", with options that leave us out of the EU but still following EU rules clearly worse than remaining in the EU and having a say about what those rules are.
    What 'leavers' refuse to accept is the fact that UK businesses will continue to be bound by EU rules if they want to trade with EU countries, regardless of whether or not we are in or out.

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      Originally posted by AndrewDod View Post

      Actually I think it takes little effort. The problem with the Brexit scenario is that it has neatly sidestepped any actual discussion of economic policy - so the policy and ideas/ideals of nutcases is not really being discussed - a major failure. However apart from a few of our more privileged naive children in London, most sensible people realise the danger of allowing fools like Corbyn or any of his Marxist racist chronies with ideas from the planet Zog to control the tiller. Even Greece is starting to come to its senses.
      I'm neither naive, a child or a Londoner - but Corbyn's economic policy might be better for this country than either incompetent lizzard..

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        Our GBP has fallen to a low rate against USD. I hope our UK banks ( saved in 2008 by the tax payers money ) are not offering fx shorting services to the speculators.

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          Great news for exporters!
          Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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            Daily Mail ( 31 July ) reported the the money changers at Airport are quoting very low exchange rate at £1= 0.79 Euros ( walk up rate at Stansted.). At London Heathrow T3, the rate offered was £1= 0.91 Euros . Holiday travellers are getting clipped at the airport even before they get to the departure gate.

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              Originally posted by Gordon999 View Post
              Daily Mail ( 31 July ) reported the the money changers at Airport are quoting very low exchange rate at £1= 0.79 Euros ( walk up rate at Stansted.). At London Heathrow T3, the rate offered was £1= 0.91 Euros . Holiday travellers are getting clipped at the airport even before they get to the departure gate.

              Anyone buying currency at the airport is an idiot who shouldnt be allowed out without a minder anyway.

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                I was wondering if using a UK credit card in any cash machine in europe would get you a higher exchange rate.

                Comment


                  Unless you're very careful with your choice of card, the additional fee for the transaction wipes out any benefit.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    Unless you're very careful with your choice of card, the additional fee for the transaction wipes out any benefit.
                    True - although it can be a good way to get cash if you have an account/card that doesn't have additional charges.
                    I pay no additional charges for cash withdrawals/transactions abroad (unless the cash machine includes a charge). The disadvantage is that I don't know what exchange rate I am getting until I see a statement after the fact - although it is generally a better exchange rate than offered at the airport!

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                      You've got to be careful using cards abroad folks. My bank cancels the card as soon as a foreign transaction pops up. I took cash to spend in Berlin.

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                        I was wondering if any one really understands the " irish backstop " ?

                        It seems to mean leaving the borders between North Ireland ( UK) and Southern Ireland ( EU ) open ( as it is now ) .


                        "
                        The “Irish backstop” is effectively an insurance policy in UK-EU Brexit negotiations. It’s meant to make sure that the Irish border remains open (as it is today) whatever the outcome of the UK and the EU’s negotiations about their future relationship after Brexit."

                        Doesn't this comply to the "Good Friday" Agreement for peace with the IRA in NI?

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                          It does comply with the Good Friday Agreement but the backstop problem is that it is effective until a deal is reached. If no deal is reached then we are tied to Europe indefinitely/forever. There's just no incentive then for the EU to make a deal at all.

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                            The Irish Backstop isn't that complicated really.

                            The Withdrawal agreement is designed to overcome a practical problem about the UK leaving the EU.
                            Which is that the UK doesn't know what kind of trade deal it wants with the EU and the EU won't agree a new trade deal while the UK is part of the EU.
                            And the UK and EU don't want a hard Brexit, which is the only alternative.

                            So the withdrawal agreement allows the UK to enter a transition period, during which it will negotiate a new deal with the EU.
                            It includes the rules that will operate during the transition period and a political statement - which lays out the framework of the deal both sides are aiming for.

                            It's a pretty smart document and is in one sense a triumph of negotiation.
                            In another sense, it makes absolutely clear the best deal we're going to get from the EU when we're outside it.

                            It also considers what might happen if no deal is possible and tries to handle one consequence that causes a problem for both sides.

                            The problem with the EU and the UK having no trade deal is that WTO rules - which is what would operate by default, because it's the lowest level regulations possible for any international trade - require a hard border between any nations who don't have another customs agreement.

                            As it happens, the EU would also have to have a hard border, because otherwise there's nothing to stop unwanted goods and people "leaking" into the EU through a more porous border.

                            Politically, neither the Republic of Ireland (and by extension the EU) or any of the political parties in NI want there to be a hard border.
                            And freedom of movement is an essential feature (and desired outcome) of the Good Friday Agreement.

                            The choice is binary - neither side has any room to compromise, there's either a hard border or there's a trade deal.

                            The Irish Backstop is a fudge to create a workable outcome in case a deal isn't forthcoming, to prevent a hard border being necessary.

                            So what the Irish Backstop does is say that whatever happens at the end of the withdrawal period, unless a third option has been agreed, Northern Ireland would have to agree to stay in the customs union or Northern Ireland would have to agree to follow pretty much whatever the EU's rules were exactly as though it was still in the EU (which is how Switzerland deals with the same problem). Without, obviously, having any input to it or any kind of veto.

                            Which, in practice, means that the hard border moves to be between Northern Ireland and the rest of the UK, which is politically unacceptable for all kinds of reasons, or means that the whole of the UK would also have to agree to be part of of the customs union or agree to mimic its rules.

                            The UK has refused to be part of the current customs union with the EU (because that requires freedom of movement, which is a UK "red line"), so the only option would be for the UK to mimic the EU's regulatory framework with no input or veto.

                            In the absence of an interim deal containing the backstop, when we leave the EU, the outcome is a hard border, at least until a deal is done to eliminate the need for it.

                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              My remain vote was based on 2 things.

                              1) I heard too much xenophobic ranting from.some leave supporters and no real explanation that I believed that didn't sound like a lie.
                              2) The intrinsic belief that change is hard, it costs more ( too much more) and it creates too much uncertainty. And uncertainty about the future was not what we wanted coming out of a recession.

                              it gives me no pleasure to say. I was probably right about both.

                              I now think we should just run towards the light over a cliff and see what happens. If no deal is what we get then so be it. Get it over with and let's rebuild the **** that happens with new politicians because the old ones turned out to be ****.

                              Comment


                                No deal is a lie.
                                At some point, we’ll have to agree a deal with the EU, because they’re the people we trade with most.

                                So all we’re really choosing is between doing a deal now and doing a deal later.

                                We messed up by giving ourselves a deadline to do a deal when we didn’t need to.
                                We’re about to mess up again by waiting until we’re outside the EU to agree a deal.
                                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                                Comment

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