Brexit

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    Originally posted by Macromia View Post
    Yes, but that's a fairly typical turnout for UK voters in EU elections. People don't vote (or vote for parties who won't bother to represent them) and then claim that the EU is unelected and doesn't represent them.
    What does that say about the majority of UK voters?
    Well, to be fair to the electorate (who have expressly appointed me as their spokesman!), until recently, the European Parliament wasn't that important. It's becoming more involved in more processes, which does seem like a good thing from a democratic point of view.

    The fundamental thing that depresses me about all of this is that 90 percent or so of the population don't know about the EU, how it works, what it does or why.
    And, until a couple of years ago, most people simply didn't care either.

    It was about as signifcant in people's day to day life as the United Nations or Southampton Football club. A tiny minority of people had strong opinions pro or anti, but you could probably have fitted them all into a field. For most people, their views on the EU were at the level of importance in their lives as which TV program they preferred.

    And all of this shambles is driven on about half of that tiny minority who managed to force a referendum, and, if you ask people a question, they'll express an opinion.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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      And, until a couple of years ago, most people simply didn't care either.

      Well thank goodness we woke up just in time....
      Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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        Originally posted by islandgirl View Post
        Well thank goodness we woke up just in time....
        I'd suggest that the majority are still dreaming and/or unaware of what EU membership means.

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          and when they find out they will also join us on the Leave side I am sure!
          Unshackled by the chains of idle vanity, A modest manatee, that's me

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            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            Well, to be fair to the electorate (who have expressly appointed me as their spokesman!), until recently, the European Parliament wasn't that important. It's becoming more involved in more processes, which does seem like a good thing from a democratic point of view.

            The fundamental thing that depresses me about all of this is that 90 percent or so of the population don't know about the EU, how it works, what it does or why.
            And, until a couple of years ago, most people simply didn't care either.

            It was about as signifcant in people's day to day life as the United Nations or Southampton Football club. A tiny minority of people had strong opinions pro or anti, but you could probably have fitted them all into a field. For most people, their views on the EU were at the level of importance in their lives as which TV program they preferred.

            And all of this shambles is driven on about half of that tiny minority who managed to force a referendum, and, if you ask people a question, they'll express an opinion.
            You sound so condescending JPK.

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              I'm sure that some will join the dreamers, but then again, some of the dreamers are waking up to reality and starting to recognise that 'leave' offers nothing realistically achievable.

              If 'leave' genuinely had something to offer that had a realistic chance of being achievable, then they might start to gain the type of support that might lead to them eventually having the sort of majority that would make such a major gamble more reasonable.
              In the absence of that, 'remain' will almost certainly slowly continue to gain support.

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                Originally posted by JK0 View Post

                You sound so condescending JPK.
                There is nothing condescending about accurately stating what the position was.
                You may not like it, but nothing in the post that you quoted is inaccurate.

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                  Originally posted by Macromia View Post

                  There is nothing condescending about accurately stating what the position was.
                  You may not like it, but nothing in the post that you quoted is inaccurate.
                  And you too.

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                    JKO: Are you going to challenge anything that JPKeates said in the post to try and show that it isn't correct? If not, why mention it at all if it isn't just to demonstrate that you dislike the facts?

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                      Originally posted by Macromia View Post
                      JKO: Are you going to challenge anything that JPKeates said in the post to try and show that it isn't correct? If not, why mention it at all if it isn't just to demonstrate that you dislike the facts?
                      No, I've given up arguing with the pair of you. We see the EU through different lenses, and no amount of points made by either side will convince the other.

                      Why I mentioned it at all is to try to make JPK reflect on the way he comes across. (Frankly it sounds arrogant.)

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                        Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                        We see the EU through different lenses, and no amount of points made by either side will convince the other.
                        That's an admission, on your part, that your mind is completely closed.

                        I don't hold the same opinion - if someone can show me that there genuinely are more benefits to leaving the EU than there are from remaining a member, and can suggest a plausible way of leaving the EU and gaining these benefits, I would be prepared to 'switch sides'.
                        The problem is that no one seems to be able to come up with anything other than dreams, without any reasonable method by which those dreams could be obtained.

                        Comment


                          Originally posted by Macromia View Post
                          That's an admission, on your part, that your mind is completely closed.

                          I don't hold the same opinion - if someone can show me that there genuinely are more benefits to leaving the EU than there are from remaining a member, and can suggest a plausible way of leaving the EU and gaining these benefits, I would be prepared to 'switch sides'.
                          The problem is that no one seems to be able to come up with anything other than dreams, without any reasonable method by which those dreams could be obtained.
                          Yeah, whatever.

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                            Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                            Why I mentioned it at all is to try to make JPK reflect on the way he comes across. (Frankly it sounds arrogant.)
                            I do appreciate the point.

                            I hope it's just the way I type online.

                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post

                              I hope it's just the way I type online.
                              I have seen nothing at all wrong with any of your posts.

                              I.M.O., most of time when people consider there to be a 'problem' with comments in online exchanges like this one, it is because of the way that they have chosen to interpret a particular post.

                              When people strongly disagree with an alternative opinion, it is often very easy for them to 'read things into' written posts that were not intended, and that readers who agree with the poster or have taken no position either way will not see.

                              Comment


                                The wonderful things the E.U. have done for us .

                                https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CVriot01C9U

                                Comment

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