Proof of Subsequent Gas Certificates?

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    #16
    Originally posted by tatemono View Post
    anyone got a link to where it's a requirement to serve the test copy within 28 days of a test?
    Paragraph 6 here: http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/36/made

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      #17
      Originally posted by tatemono View Post
      anyone got a link to where it's a requirement to serve the test copy within 28 days of a test?
      http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/36/made

      Section 6
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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        #18
        No GSC = No S21, is a nice fluffy idea thought up by those with no thought of the unintended consequences.

        However, of interest;

        https://www.anthonygold.co.uk/latest...y-regulations/

        The amendments seek to address this problem by giving landlords a window between 10-12 months after the last check in which to carry out a repeat check. Importantly, any check carried out within this window will be deemed to have been completed on the last day before the previous check expires. This means a landlord can obtain a new gas safety record up to two months before the current record expires and keep the same expiry date. On some occasions, therefore, the period between gas safety checks could be as long as 14 months instead of the usual 12 months.

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          #19
          Originally posted by boletus View Post
          No GSC = No S21, is a nice fluffy idea thought up by those with no thought of the unintended consequences
          It's not unintended consequences. It was very much intended by parliament and government.

          Either a court will ignore the lack of an up to date certificate due to tenant's action, make an order of possession under s8, and/or they can issue an injunction for the tenant to provide access for a gas check. It is not legally possible for the tenant to permanently prevent landlord repossession.
          I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

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            #20
            How much (time and actual money) does an injunction cost?

            There's "legal" and there's "affordible".
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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              #21
              Originally posted by KTC View Post

              It's not unintended consequences. It was very much intended by parliament and government.
              The intention wasn't for tenants to refuse gas safety checks in order to delay eviction, but that is the result.
              Even if it doesn't actually delay eviction (which still remains to be seen) the perception of it is there.
              An unintended consequence.

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                #22
                so I wrote to one of my LAs and asked them if they served certs subsequent to re-tests. They said they're contractor leaves the "pink copy" in the property for the tenants. They also said that should an S21 be served, they'd reissue all paperwork anyway as a precursor to that.

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by KTC View Post
                  Either a court will ignore the lack of an up to date certificate due to tenant's action, make an order of possession under s8, and/or they can issue an injunction for the tenant to provide access for a gas check. It is not legally possible for the tenant to permanently prevent landlord repossession.
                  A court can't ignore the lack of a gas safety certificate (well courts can do anything, as we know, but the law doesn't allow them that flexibility).
                  I don't see how a court could simply change the process, the information on the application to the court for a repossession order would be wrong (the grounds have to be laid out for a s8 hearing).
                  They might issue the injunction, but, procedurally, they shouldn't - the tenant may want to take legal advice or prepare a defence to such an injunction.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                    #24
                    First, this whole thread assume that for the purpose of section 21 to be valid, a gas safety check must have been conducted, and the associated certificate given within the last 12 months. That was not the interpretation many legal commentators gave when the rule came in. It were stated that given the wording of reg. 2(2), service of a copy of the certificate then in place when the tenant first moved in would be sufficient. i.e. The gas safety regulation itself aside, landlord don't have to keep doing the annual check and supply the associated certificate. Personally, I'm not aware of any test case on this point one way or another.

                    Now, assuming that interpretation to be incorrect.

                    A court could well make an order of possession under the rule of natural justice if the only impediment is the lack of a GSC that could not be given due to the tenant continual refusal to allow access where the landlord have made all reasonable attempts to comply.

                    For the s8 route, yes the landlord would have to apply for possession under that and not s21. My point being that if it's indeed impossible to go under s21, a landlord can serve notice under ground 12 on the basis tenant's refusal to allow access and then apply for possession that way.

                    A landlord wouldn't be asking a court hearing a possession claim to order access. The landlord would have to be doing this before the s21, applying to court for gas access injuction, get that access and do the check as a result, and then serve the s21. Gas access injuctions are not uncommon in the social housing sector.
                    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

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                      #25
                      Ah - ok, not arguing just to be a dick..

                      I would love to hear of any court arguing a natural justice provision for a repossession. It may have happened, but it seems unlikely. And, while property court appeals aren't common, the prescribed documentation requirements are very specific, so the natural justice concept has a lot of work to do.

                      Ground 12? You're kidding. I don't have much else to say. How many tenancies have an agreement implicit) to allow a gas inspection? It's an obligation on the landlord, not something the tenant has to consider.

                      "Gas access injunctions are not uncommon in the social housing sector". To inspect a gas meter or to cap supply. To perform a safety check in a private rental?
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                        #26
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post

                        "Gas access injunctions are not uncommon in the social housing sector". To inspect a gas meter or to cap supply. To perform a safety check in a private rental?
                        Access for gas safety checks is a problem in social housing (as it will increasingly become in the PRS);

                        http://www.systontownnews.co.uk/2014...safety-checks/



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                          #27
                          Again, the issue for a private landlord is how to get access to a magistrates court for a court order.
                          I don't see how someone who isn't a police force or council can access the process.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            Ground 12? You're kidding. I don't have much else to say. How many tenancies have an agreement implicit) to allow a gas inspection? It's an obligation on the landlord, not something the tenant has to consider.
                            You don't need an explicit provision for access for gas safety checks. Any provision for notice for access to do inspection would be enough.

                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            I don't see how someone who isn't a police force or council can access the process.
                            There's plenty of lawyers that know how the process works. And for private landlord, I think county court rather than magistrates.
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

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