Proof of Subsequent Gas Certificates?

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Proof of Subsequent Gas Certificates?

    Something struck me yesterday regarding the requirement for a gas certificate for an S21 eviction. We all know, and are very careful to ensure that tenants acknowledge receipt of documents at the start of a tenancy. However for a S21 to be valid, the tenant must have received a gas certificate within the previous 12 months. A crafty tenant could deny actually receiving it, the same as they do with lots of documents. Therefore shouldn't we take the same precautions when posting gas certificates as we do for all other documents?

    Also, should we not do the gas check at the 11 month point, in case the boiler fails or we are denied access, so that there is time to issue a s21 on the strength of the old gas certificate?

    #2
    When the gas man comes round he leaves a copy with the tenant. I would suggest a landlord texts the tenant to confirm receipt of the cert if there's any doubt.

    And no. If the boiler fails it can't be used but any other gas appliances will be ok. You'll need another check if the boiler fails and it'll be just one of those things. If you're going to be denied access at m12 then you're going to be denied it a m11 so don't waste a month's cert.

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
      If you're going to be denied access at m12 then you're going to be denied it a m11 so don't waste a month's cert.
      Well that's my point. If tenant denies you access at 11 months, you can get him out. If you let 12 months pass after a valid gas certificate, there is no longer a mechanism for a s21 eviction. You will have to go with section 8 ground 13, which is not even a mandatory ground.

      Comment


        #4
        ensure that each appliance and flue to which that duty extends is checked for safety within 12 months of being installed and at intervals of not more than 12 months since it was last checked for safety (whether such check was made pursuant to these Regulations or not);
        Checked for safety, not that it's deemed safe. Obviously, you'll then have other legal obligation to making it safe or working again, but s21A just require the test certificate to be provided. From what I can tell, it could have a big fat FAIL written in red on it and it'll still satisfy that part of the requirement.
        I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

        Comment


          #5
          I'd imagine it's going to be routine to send a bundle of all the prescribed information ahead of serving a s21 notice.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            I'd imagine it's going to be routine to send a bundle of all the prescribed information ahead of serving a s21 notice.
            I believe I read that the gas cert has to be supplied to tenant within 28 days of the test.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by KTC View Post

              Checked for safety, not that it's deemed safe. Obviously, you'll then have other legal obligation to making it safe or working again, but s21A just require the test certificate to be provided. From what I can tell, it could have a big fat FAIL written in red on it and it'll still satisfy that part of the requirement.
              I agree that's what it says. Can you imagine trying to convince an a***hole judge of that though?

              Comment


                #8
                Ok, what if you go beyond the 12 months, book a gas engineer to do the safety check, tenant doesn't let him in.

                Can you request the engineer to issue a "failed" certificate, on the basis that he hasn't been able to do a check?

                You can then deliver the certificate to the tenant (proof of posting etc) and you are then compliant to issue s21.

                Or is the engineer not allowed to issue the cert unless he has actually seen the boiler?

                Comment


                  #9
                  I would like to think that so long as you can prove (not show) that access was denied on several occasions, that any magistrate would see that the tenant had 'frustrated' the landlords legal requirements, but thinking that doesn't make it true !!

                  I alos know of one occasion that the engineer actually isolated the gas supply to a property (flat) as the meter was outside, leaving notice of isolation etc due to not being able to gain access. whether that was legal or not I don't know. but if you consider the test is to also make sure the property is safe to neighbours, then it may be one way of dealing with tenant not allowing access?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thanks for your thoughts guys.

                    By the way, regarding my first point about the tenant disputing receiving the certificate, British Gas don't issue a certificate on the spot. They send one several days later. Now I believe they send to both landlord and tenant, but I have no confirmation of this from them. Therefore I have emailed a scan of mine to my tenant and asked her to acknowledge it. If she hadn't, I would have had to go down the certificate of posting from two different post offices route.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Yes, British gas did one of mine in November and they emailed me the cert a few days later.

                      They didn't email the tenant, for a start they don't have the tenant's email address! Not sure if they would ask for it if the tenant was present at the time of inspection though?

                      Of course your average Joe Bloggs gas engineer won't be emailing anything anytime soon!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                        I believe I read that the gas cert has to be supplied to tenant within 28 days of the test.
                        The 28 days applies to the requirement to give the tenant a copy of the certificate when the test is carried out.

                        For s21 purposes, the 28 day requirement is not an issue.
                        (2) For the purposes of section 21A of the Act, the requirement prescribed by paragraph (1)(b) is limited to the requirement on a landlord to give a copy of the relevant record to the tenant and the 28 day period for compliance with that requirement does not apply.
                        The reality is that the regulations incentivise a tenant for whom being evicted is a more realistic issue than blowing up or being gassed to not allow the gas safety check to be done at all.
                        That essentially makes them immune from a s21 notice at all.
                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post

                          The reality is that the regulations incentivise a tenant for whom being evicted is a more realistic issue than blowing up or being gassed to not allow the gas safety check to be done at all.
                          That essentially makes them immune from a s21 notice at all.
                          Thanks for the tip about the 28 days.

                          Guess I'm glad 9 out of my 15 rentals are all electric.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            It's not a huge issue for me (it's been thankfully very rare to serve notice), but if I was operating at the lower income end of the market, I'd be avoiding gas boilers in properties - which would leave tenants with either higher energy bills or storage heaters which most people don't really like.

                            Unintended consequences strike again.
                            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                              The 28 days applies to the requirement to give the tenant a copy of the certificate when the test is carried out.

                              For s21 purposes, the 28 day requirement is not an issue.
                              anyone got a link to where it's a requirement to serve the test copy within 28 days of a test?

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              Working...
                              X