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    #16
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    This article is unreadable...

    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    One of the main complaints about Uber is that they're simply buying the market by trading at a vast loss.
    The loss they make is because they invest in growth. Drivers presumably make a living out of it.
    In any case this is quite irrelevant to licensing, or at least it should be irrelevant.

    Uber is just running minicabs. They do aggressively, using technology and business tactics, but they are just running minicabs.

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      #17
      Originally posted by ram View Post
      A lot Uber drivers can't speak proper English, which tells you the probable ethnicity of the drivers
      So what?

      Originally posted by ram View Post
      due to open borders
      I am against open borders. But are we going to ban most waitresses and doctors (rather than stopping them entering when their skills are not required). Yes it is a problem that (many) young people in this country don't want to work, and prefer collecting "benefits" rather than assuming roles that are beneath their precious dignity. And it is also unfortunate that uncontrolled immigration provides the excuse. But that is irrelevant to the matter at hand.

      Originally posted by ram View Post
      , and they can charge you what they like.
      How exactly can they do that?

      Originally posted by ram View Post
      Heathrow. Normal charge for Black cab to go to nearest hotel, is £ 10.
      Uber, who dominate Heathrow ( I am told ) charge £ 50., and there are masses of them.
      Eh?

      Originally posted by ram View Post
      Uber has more rapes associated with them than Black cabs and mini cabs.
      Because of the criminal element AND foreigners operating them. is why
      Uber isn't "fit and proper" to hold a license to operate a private-hire vehicle service.
      And how many rapes has that been exactly? I doubt there is any good source for the frequency of rapes by taxi drivers split by category
      (or for that matter frequency of rapes by waitresses).

      The very women who are subject to rape prefer Uber several fold . Who am I to argue.

      Comment


        #18
        Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post

        This article is unreadable...

        The loss they make is because they invest in growth. Drivers presumably make a living out of it.
        In any case this is quite irrelevant to licensing, or at least it should be irrelevant
        Sorry, seemed fine to me.

        Uber is making a loss because it charges customers less to make a journey than it costs.
        They're not "investing in growth", they're driving their competitors out of the market by trading at a loss.
        Some estimates from New York indicate they're losing 60% on each journey (obviously the economics vary and are confidential).

        That would be relevant to any "fit and proper person" test as it would possibly be illegal under UK competition law (if Uber has more than 40% market share in London it's a dominant market position and that kind of pricing is abuse).
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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          #19
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          Uber is making a loss because it charges customers less to make a journey than it costs.
          They're not "investing in growth", they're driving their competitors out of the market by trading at a loss.
          Some estimates from New York indicate they're losing 60% on each journey (obviously the economics vary and are confidential).

          That would be relevant to any "fit and proper person" test as it would possibly be illegal under UK competition law (if Uber has more than 40% market share in London it's a dominant market position and that kind of pricing is abuse).
          I think you need to distinguish between Uber and Drivers in your narrative.

          Certainly it is the case that Uber drivers do make a loss on some journeys (and perhaps even make a loss in total if they are not careful).

          I sell stuff on E-bay. Many transactions are loss-making. Would you ban E-bay as well.

          Hell, it's a free world. I think we can trust most people to act in their own interest.

          If the best case for shutting down Uber is that their drivers make a loss (regardless of whether that is true) then that is a pretty pathetic case.

          This type of nanny'ing is insulting to those who are nannied, but more importantly serves as distraction from corruption (and the corrupt people who make money out of the steering of those nannied).

          By the way this thread absolutely belongs on a Landlord's forum -- the issues are the same.

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            Uber is making a loss because it charges customers less to make a journey than it costs.
            And of course you read that somewhere but there is no evidence.

            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            They're not "investing in growth"
            They quite obviously are, though...

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              #21
              I am talking about the company making a loss, not the drivers.
              I imagine it's possible for a driver to make a loss on some journeys; the economics of being a driver seem broadly as rubbish as lots of other jobs.
              But they are a flexible way to earn money and it seems to be popular.

              Regarding ebay, the comparison isn't like for like. You can choose to make a loss or not on any individual sale and can protect your sale with a minimum if you don't want to make a loss.

              Uber's pricing is set by Uber (the company).
              Systemically destroying competition by running at a loss isn't an issue about nannying.

              And I'm not saying that the system was perfect before either.
              I've never ridden in an Uber and have been in a taxi in London once this year.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                And of course you read that somewhere but there is no evidence.
                It's mentioned in the article you found unreadable.

                There's a link to a very detailed discussion of why Uber's economic model isn't viable without putting up prices significantly, because it can't make cost savings, and to do that it needs to eliminate competition which prevents the prices going up.
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #23
                  Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                  It's mentioned in the article you found unreadable.
                  It's a massively long article that jumps from one topic to the next... Could you please point to the evidence it presents?

                  Uber cannot eliminate competition. It really is too simple to set up as a competitor. If that really is their strategy then they are doomed to fail.

                  But to work well Uber needs a lot of drivers. As a user you want to see cars around every time you look for one on their app. I think a lot is spent on drivers.

                  Note, also that surge pricing means that Uber is not necessarily cheaper than the competition. Again, what it aims at, I think, is availability: They want you to think that Uber means getting a car quickly whenever you need one.

                  Ah but then they are also criticised when price surges...

                  Comment


                    #24
                    https://gizmodo.com/why-uber-is-losi...y-e-1785736918
                    This is a year old, but it's the simplest analysis that I can find for you.
                    Uber loses money because it pays its drivers more than it takes in revenue.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                      Uber loses money because it pays its drivers more than it takes in revenue.
                      If that's so that's not necessarily to drive competitors to the ground.

                      I think the key insight in the latest article you posted is:
                      Eventually, Uber will get rid of the drivers and turn a huge profit
                      As said before, they need a lot of cars. At the moment that means attracting a lot of drivers, and the incentives are costing them. And of course they also need a lot of people installing their app.

                      Once you have installed their app, when you're looking for a cab and have trouble finding one, you just launch their app and, magic, one shows up fairly quickly. That's why people like them.

                      In London I believe that the number of licensed private hires has skyrocketed since Uber moved in. Clearly a lot of people who were not taxi drivers have been attracted by Uber.

                      With driverless cars they won't need drivers anymore... That's probably 10 years away but that's clearly where they are going (same as the whole transport industry).

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                        #26
                        The previous CEO (now replaced) was pretty up front about the mission to wipe out Uber's competition.
                        He does seem to have been something of a maniac, though.


                        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Oh gosh, an entrepreneur with spirit... They must be banned!

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                            The previous CEO (now replaced) was pretty up front about the mission to wipe out Uber's competition.
                            He does seem to have been something of a maniac, though.
                            That is the goal of every good company. If that was not their goal their shareholders would be rightly miffied.

                            Comment


                              #29
                              There are two general models for a company. One, make profit early and steadily, and use that profit to expand in a sustainable fashion. The other, as practised by technology startups like Uber and thousands of others are to expand as much as possible as quickly as possible. Build that userbase such that it's part of everyday life for people and then worry about how to turn a profit from that userbase. They want to be the only game in town in that sector. There's nothing unique about this to Uber.
                              I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                              I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                Yup. I think Comrade Corbyn should ban
                                Deliveroo
                                Amazon (who actually don't make much profit yet either)
                                Ebay
                                Google

                                Sieg Heil

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