Unsigned tenancy agreement, no check-in process

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    Unsigned tenancy agreement, no check-in process

    I viewed a property earlier this week for a 3bed flat. Landlord was adament about completing the agreement and payment by the next day. We have signed the agreement via hellosign, and have sent proof of all payment needed as stated in the contract. The contract was sent to us by the landlord, with the landlord's name on the document. L has not signed it after we signed it. It is a joint tenancy.

    The landlord was very adament about starting the tenancy on Friday, the day after the agreement was signed by us. I went to collect the keys yesterday and was only given one key (not all 3) by finding it under the letterbox. I asked the landlord about this and was told to tell her when the other 2 tenants want to move in and that their bedrooms are stll being fixed.

    I have not recieved a inventory list, and the landlord has changed the decoration/furnishing of the flat since the viewing. There is furniture in my room which I would like to be removed as it looks like it has been collected off of the street. The flat is also dirty and has not been professionally cleaned. However, the latter was not mentioned in the tenancy agreement.
    1. As the flat is dirty and a mess from when one tenant recieved their key, does that mean that we do not have to worry much about leaving the flat clean when the tenancy ends?
    2. There is no inventory list (yet?), if the landlord refuses to remove unwanted furniture, what are our rights to do with these?
    3. There has been no mention of deposit protection scheme in the tenancy agreement or been mentioned by the landlord. As they have 30 days to give proof of deposit protection, does this time start on the first day of tenancy, or when all 3 keys have been handed over?

    #2
    1 - If the tenancy deposit specifies the condition in which the property must be returned or requires a level of cleaning, that would still apply. Otherwise, there's no need to return the property in a better condition than you received it.

    2 - If you are renting the property furnished, the furniture is part of what you are renting and you would need to return it with the property (or replaced with identical or better equivalents). With no inventory, the landlord won't be able to make any successful claims for loss pr damage, unless you agree with them.

    If the furniture is not what you viewed, the landlord has misled you and should replace the furniture with what was advertised. I imagine that the landlord wouldn't agree with that and you would have to go to court to compel them to comply.

    3 - The deposit has to be protected and the Prescribed Information supplied within 30 days of it being "received" by the landlord. That applies to part of the deposit or the whole of it. In reality, if the deposit was handed over before the tenancy began, the clock starts ticking when the tenancy starts, which happens when the first joint tenant takes possession.
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Thank you, Jpkeates! do you think I shoud be concerned that L has not signed the tenancy agreement? or is this a non issue as they sent the document and agreed to hand over keys according to the date of agreement?

      Comment


        #4
        Can you confirm that this is a joint tenancy, not three single room tenancies.

        Your landlord seems distinctly shady, so make sure you keep written records, and if something important is only stated verbally, minute the conversation and send a copy to the landlord.

        Read any condition report carefully before signing it; a competent landlord would require at least a provisional signature at check-in. Annotate the report regarding any discrepancies before signing it, and, in particular, if asked to sign before all the rooms are ready, assuming a joint tenancy, very clearly state that.

        Report any defects that you find as soon as possible, even before the condition report.

        This is an HMO. The landlord is required to put up certain notices, and to take certain steps for fire safety.

        Check on your council's web site to see if they have Additional HMO licensing in your area and, if so, whether the property is licensed.

        Comment


          #5
          You have a dodgy landlord. Photograph everything and upload copies to the cloud - and I mean every patch of dirt and every bit of damage. Test everything - open windows and check they close properly, run taps and check drains are not blocked, check any filters for dirt and grease and photograph that. Check you have a fire alarm.

          Do not prompt your landlord about deposit protection until 30 days have elapsed, it gives you leverage later.

          Comment


            #6
            regarding the deposit again, my flatmate found a clause in the contract which states:
            You must pay a deposit of €€€€ to us as security towards the discharge or part discharge of any liability referred to in clause xx.xx of this agreement and subject to this on trust for you absolutely. The deposit is held by us
            Does this mean the landlord does not have an obligation regarding deposit schemes etc?

            we have had more issues regarding the landlord, esp as L is coming into the flat as s/he wishes and moving my belongings which I have moved in, as they please. In addition, they are continuing to do flat renovations while the tenancy has already started.

            Comment


              #7
              In no way does that clause absolve the landlord from the requirement to protect the deposit with one of the approved schemes.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                In no way does that clause absolve the landlord from the requirement to protect the deposit with one of the approved schemes.
                thank you for confirming this. We are going a bit crazy as the landlord seems to think we were born yesterday. Unfortunately, the landlord seems to be walkng all over us. We also do not want to end up homeless in the middle of term as we're all on very intense university courses.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Sorry to double post but after looking more into the contract, we just noticed we signed a "resident landlord tenancy agreement" instead of an AST. but from this link https://landlordlawservices.co.uk/th...ncy-agreement/
                  Where the landlord owns two or more flats in a purpose built block of flats and lives in one and rents out the other(s). That will be an AST.
                  The landlord seems ineligable to use this sort of agreement as s/he lives in the same building, but in a different flat. What should we do now?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    You have stated it is a joint tenancy - how long is it for and what period of notice are you required to give? When are the other 2 moving in and how much is left to do on their rooms? How many flats in the building and are they entirely self-contained?

                    You can write to the landlord, useful in more than one way as it establishes their separate address, pointing out where they are acting illegally but you will have much more leverage if you can tolerate waiting for 30 days. Meanwhile I suggest you take a look at the Shelter website https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...ivate_landlord

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by buzzard1994 View Post
                      You have stated it is a joint tenancy - how long is it for and what period of notice are you required to give? When are the other 2 moving in and how much is left to do on their rooms? How many flats in the building and are they entirely self-contained?

                      You can write to the landlord, useful in more than one way as it establishes their separate address, pointing out where they are acting illegally but you will have much more leverage if you can tolerate waiting for 30 days. Meanwhile I suggest you take a look at the Shelter website https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...ivate_landlord
                      12 month lease, and no period of notice mentioned in the contract.

                      What will waiting the 30 day do if we signed a "resident landlord tenancy agreement" which is not required to have the deposit be protected by a scheme?

                      Comment


                        #12
                        You don't have a resident landlord, so the tenancy agreement is an AST, in spite of the words on it. If they fail to protect the deposit within 30 days, you can threaten them with a penalty for that.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          I agree, it doesn't matter what the document says it is, what it is is a matter of fact.

                          It's possible that if the tenancy agreement says that it isn't an Assured Shorthold Tenancy that it's an Assured Tenancy instead and the deposit regulations don't apply.

                          However, as it's going to be one of those two tenancy types:
                          Your landlord can't evict you without a court order within the 12 month fixed term (unless the tenancy agreement has a break clause of some kind).
                          Your landlord can't enter the property unless you agree that they can (they have a right to enter, but you have a right to exclude anyone).
                          If you're a student, your university/college is likely to have an accommodation "unit" of some kind or you can talk to shelter for advice.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            I made a mistake on the default position for ASTs. For it not be an AT, the agreement must explicitly say that it is not an AST. Simply saying that is is some other type of agreement is unlikely to result in its not being an AST.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by leaseholder64 View Post
                              I made a mistake on the default position for ASTs. For it not be an AT, the agreement must explicitly say that it is not an AST. Simply saying that is is some other type of agreement is unlikely to result in its not being an AST.
                              A tricky one. The precise wording is: An assured tenancy which contains a provision to the effect that the tenancy is not an assured shorthold tenancy. That contrasts with the wording aplicable to a notice served before the tenancy is entered into: states that the assured tenancy to which it relates is not to be an assured shorthold tenancy. The notice wording makes it clear that the words "assured shorthold tenancy" need to appear. In the case of a clause included in an agreement the key words are "to the effect that". Which of the following are a provision to the effect that the tenancy is not an assured shorthold tenancy?

                              ·This agrement does not create a tenancy
                              ·This agreemnt does not create an assured tenancy
                              ·This agreement creates a tenancy to which Part II of the Landlord and Tenant Act 1954 applies
                              ·This agreement creates a licence
                              ·This agreement is for a holiday letting
                              ·The landlord resides in the property

                              Comment

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