Dropped a clanger!

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    Thanks for that. I have since downloaded a rent book from the Shelter website, two copies - all filled in and duly signed. Stupidly - or not, as I thought at the time - I went round to enquire why rent was late and was told he hadn't personally knocked at my door before and wasn't about to start now! Hmm. 'Professional Tenants' sounds like an excellent term to me! Even more stupid I left my copy of the rent book for signature and asked him to sign and return it today. I'm still waiting, so unless he arrives within the next 11 minutes...

    It gets more rediculous at every turn. They have a retort from everything - to the point where I now question myself before I say or even think anything. It's driving me insane and becoming clear that they've obviously got previous experience. They have actually confessed to having 'LL problems' in the past! I've received a few offers of manual removal and afraid it's sounding more attractive by the hour. lol.

    My new T's moved in today. Sadly the actions of the 'professionals' have already affecting them. They seem quite resilient at the moment though so fingers crossed. I'm doing all I can to reassure them and keep them happy. So far so good.

    Off to see a specialist tomorrow and see what he recommends. Have been in touch with SAL too and will be paying by Switch in the morning. :-)

    In reply to your question re cash payments, yes that's what I specified in the contract cos it was what they requested and is perfect for me too as we're out in the sticks so gives me readies without driving into the town for a few notes.

    Things are beginning to make a bit of sense to me as the days go by and I've started making 'enquiries' in certain directions and gleened a bit of what could prove to be very useful info in my favour - as is an 8% increase on the debt. Thanks again. I'm gradually learning to smile...


      Good luck!

      "Manual removal"??? If that's anything illegal or involving harassment DON'T GO NEAR IT- you might end up with a free holiday in Barlinnie..if however they are offering to leave, great, but get advice from SaL over what paperwork...

      Him signing eh?? Think you might wait some time... hope I'm wrong....

      You might wish to read Schedule 5 of the "Housing (Scotland) Act 1988" - grounds for eviction of assured tenancies:
      - a SaT is but a special form of AT.

      Ground 8 is mandatory (if paperwork correct Sheriff MUST grant possession) for 3 months rent owing but also Grounds 11 & 12 (discretionary - Sheriff MAY grant possession..) if rent late a bit...

      If these "gentleman" are "known to the Sheriff" and don't turn up in court/make a bad defence you just might get a possession order, or at least make them realise you know the law & are prepared to use it. See waht SaL/specialist say...

      Really sorry this has happened: Most of my tenants (I'm small-time, only 4 houses for 12 years..) have been decent ... but I have had a few "interesting" ones. When I see any who owed me money & I got any back from through court action I wave, smile & hail them with a cheery "Thanks for the money!!". It really REALLY winds them up. (£6k+ recovered to date.. )

      Illegitimi non carborundum (Google it is you don't know it..)

      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...


        Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
        Well that sounds better - but was your solicitor a specialist in Landlord/tenant matters??

        AT6 etc does not oblige the tenant to leave, it does not end the tenancy: Many tenants leave when issued with notices but they don't have to.. You'd still need to go through the Sheriff to enforce their leaving....

        I thought the AT6 had been done away with by The Scottish Governments in return for the TDS and no Tenancy fees.


          Largely I think yes done away with, particularly for "no fault" evictions.... But I think it still has a place where other grounds are used (eg rent late,.,.)

          As I understand it it is called using a Section 19 notice (AT6)

          Prior to possession proceedings, the landlord must serve a section 19 notice on the tenant, also known as a "notice of intention to raise proceedings for possession" & must be in the prescribed form, called AT6. AT6 needs to state the ground(s) on which possession is sought, & particulars of that ground.

          The section 19 notice is required for possession proceedings of assured tenancies other than where the tenancy is a short assured tenancy and the landlord is proceeding under section 33 of the 1988 Act.

          I am blessed having never needed to act on an AT6 - albeit I've had them served by Mssrs Sheriff Officers - in other words my understanding has never been tested. (In my cases tenants always left...). I am entirely legally unqualified so please don't base anything important on what I say.

          Doonsmum, any news??

          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...


            Went to Solicitor. It is indeed an SAT my T's have and I will be issuing an AT6 etc. to end the agreement in March. Hopefully they will up and leave beforehand.

            In the interim I now know exactly where I stand with all the things they've raised as complaints and he confirmed my thoughts that they basically want their cake and to eat it. I've been instructed not to discuss, just to reply bluntly with as few words as possible. I'll be issuing notices this weekend and will wait to see if I get any rent. lol. Hopefully they won't pay and just keep digging their hole even deeper. lol.

            Edited to add I'm now a fully paid up member of SAL.


              Grand: apologies if repeating myself but notices may not stand up in court unless served by recorded-signed for or Sheriff Officers.. - & don't reply on tenant signing for mail....

              Best regards
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...


                Not sure where my original zoomed off to, so apologies if this ends up being posted twice .....

                I gave some thought to the subject of persuading tenants to sign for the NTQ and hit upon the idea of sending it out in disguise. I send mine out in a Jiffy bag now (other makes of padded envelope are available) and I stick a label on the front typed in a non-standard, non-business font. Since I started doing that I've never had an NTQ not signed for.

                I'd wrap it up in Christmas paper if I thought it would get a signature :~) Yes, it costs a bit more than your bog standard envelope, but nowhere near as much as getting the Sheriff Officer out, particularly if there are two tenants (in which case I list their names separately on two lines of the label and create two separate bundles of papers so they can each have their own copy).

                Ideas for free, folks.


                  Originally posted by Sandi View Post
                  I thought the AT6 had been done away with by The Scottish Governments in return for the TDS and no Tenancy fees.
                  You still need to use an AT6 when you want to raise Court Action.


                    Brilliant idea MrsM. I'd even thought about putting them in Christmas cards!!! lol. Not sure what happens to post that someone refuses to sign for but I have plenty of jiffy bags.

                    Received a response to my last lt today. It smacks of desperation and judging by the speed of the response and the number of typo's, they're obviously in a panic. So wish I'd done my homework on them or spoke to the guy they approached previously cos I wouldn't have touched them either.

                    They're hinting at mediation but threatening court action and expressing their faith in the Scottish Justice System - despite having been north of the border for less than a year! They've admitted they're witholding their rent in lieu of unresolved problems they've reported - which according to my solicitor are not problems - and say their enjoyment of the place is spoiled and they feel unwanted. Diddums eh?!

                    It seems some things that WERE an issue to them are not now, but something else that WASN'T now IS.

                    They also posted a reply to me this morning then emailed it to me half an hour later, attaching a booklet on illegal eviction! Can this be deemed harrassment I wonder?

                    Speaking to SAL shortly but will leave those thoughts with you to ponder.


                      If a T leaves belongings in a communal area without the required permission and fails to remove them after being told to, as the LL can I remove them myself?

                      If so, do I a) put them in the porch of their cottage or b) put them in my shed?


                        Re. communal areas it probably comes down to two things....
                        a) What does then tenancy agreement state about what can be done with/put in the communal areas...
                        b) Is there (was there..) an easily understood description/outline/plan of what is "Their" bit & what are the "communal areas"....

                        Sounds like they are worried... good.. perhaps they'd like to leave early!! Me, I have every faith in the Scottish legal system...
                        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...


                          It makes no reference to the communal areas. It only says they basically must not do anything which prevents other T's from enjoying the place and given that his stuff is directly opposte the lounge windows of two other cottages I don't see why they should have to look at it. It is however, blatantly obvious that it's a communal courtyard as the other two cottages open in to it and the only demarkation is around the perimeter which segregates them from us.

                          I now have it in writing that they are intentionally witholding payment because timers on some of the heaters aren't working and saying it's a matter between us and our insurers! The heaters and thermostats do though so they're not without heating. However, the para they refer to only lists 'damage and destruction' and what is covered by our insurance, so surely that eradicates their reasoning?

                          So so very angry with all this now. We are four properties around a courtyard and I cannot believe they have the gall to enter and leave the cottage when I am standing only a matter of feet away!


                            Yet another question...

                            Can a Section 21 Notice be issued to end an SaT?

                            Just wondering if I could take that option and then sue for unpaid rent afterwards.


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