Dropped a clanger!

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  • #16
    Hi Artful. Apologies for the confusion. I'm so upset / stressed / annoyed that it's all beginning to weigh heavily and I can't think about anything else.

    The latter of the two links you have posted - regarding the two men sharing - is my concern. My previous threads about the single guy are over. He kept his promise, paid his rent, came back and cleaned the cottage from top to bottom and left it spotless. I gave him his bond back, got him to sign a receipt and he's now moved out.

    In answer to your question, I have a signed AT5 dated 14th September and a signed SaT dated 17th September.

    At no point in the contract does it specify that they can park on our property but they were told verbally they could use the parking area - which is just a gravelled area as we live out in the sticks but within the curtilage of our grounds. It has a wall and a five bar gate and will be shared with other tenants who (God forbid!) are due to move in to another cottage next weekend. We are a small complex of four buildings centred around a courtyard. Our house backs on to the cottage in question containing the two men and is a converted byre.

    I advertised the cottage - just in the local 80p rag - with free wi-fi and Sky TV, all of which we had previously provided for our holiday rental guests. There is no reference to Sky in the contract - although we supplied a TV so since they are no longer paying their rent am I able to withdraw that service in order for them to sort out their own or get FreeSat?

    Finally, I gave them the TV licence which was in my name and had four months left to run. They have not paid me for that so can I now surrender the licence and advise them accordingly that they must provide their own?

    Many thanks.

    Comment


    • #17
      MODs please merge with...
      http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51375

      http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...read.php?51555

      Originally posted by Doonsmum View Post
      Hi Artful. Apologies for the confusion. I'm so upset / stressed / annoyed that it's all beginning to weigh heavily and I can't think about anything else.
      Yup, know the feeling..

      btw i am but a legally unqualified human: I think you need some qualified advice from, say, SaL. If not already a member suggest you join - see
      http://www.scottishlandlords.com/
      & also, given your questions, do the LaS training, see
      http://www.landlordaccreditationscotland.com/

      - hope you ain't offended...
      The latter of the two links you have posted - regarding the two men sharing - is my concern.
      OK, have asked Mods to merge... by the way (I did not realise until this week) advice from e.g. SaL is serve separate AT5s on each tenant, not one joint...

      At no point in the contract does it specify that they can park on our property but they were told verbally they could use the parking area - which is just a gravelled area as we live out in the sticks but within the curtilage of our grounds. It has a wall and a five bar gate and will be shared with other tenants who (God forbid!) are due to move in to another cottage next weekend. We are a small complex of four buildings centred around a courtyard. Our house backs on to the cottage in question containing the two men and is a converted byre.

      I advertised the cottage - just in the local 80p rag - with free wi-fi and Sky TV, all of which we had previously provided for our holiday rental guests. There is no reference to Sky in the contract - although we supplied a TV so since they are no longer paying their rent am I able to withdraw that service in order for them to sort out their own or get FreeSat?
      I suspect most people, including D&G trading standards, would find that what you advertised/said is, unless there was very clear agreement not to take (eg "by the way we don't need the fridge thank you" from tenant..) is what you need to deliver. Certainly if you want to p*** off tenant and start relations off on a bad, non-trusting "I'm gonna get back at that b****ard" mode then not giving what you advertised is normally a good way to do so.. (just my views mind..)
      Finally, I gave them the TV licence which was in my name and had four months left to run. They have not paid me for that so can I now surrender the licence and advise them accordingly that they must provide their own?

      Many thanks.
      YOUR TV license entitles YOU to view: If you wish to transfer see...
      http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ17/

      . According to TV licensing guys if a LL supplies tele then BOTH tenant & LL can be liable for fine (£1k..). So where I supply tele I have a clause making T responsible for TV license, broadband, 'phone, council tax, gas, leccy etc etc...see..
      http://www.tvlicensing.co.uk/faqs/FAQ47/

      I ask, again, are you registered, please???
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


      • #18
        Three related threads have been merged.
        I also post as Mars_Mug when not moderating

        Comment


        • #19
          Thanks for that.

          Well I have today spoken to a Solicitor in the town over the phone, explained the situation and he tells me that trying to evict them on the grounds of non-payment of rent could prove a lengthy and costly exercise on my part. He's advised that I just let the tenancy run and bring it to a natural conclusion mid March, which is now what I intend to do.

          I'm not happy that I'll be losing tons of rent - however it is my smallest property so not like I'll be too much out of pocket and at least I don't have to cover the electricity costs etc. I will however, look into suing them for non payment at the appropriate time nearer to or at the end of their lease. I will also keep that part of the bond although it will only cover a fraction of my losses.

          Re the dog situation, apparently I don't have a leg to stand on because I verbally agreed it would be ok despite it being a conversation just between them and myself and with only cows and sheep to overhear! It seems the tenants themselves are deemed to be 'witnesses' so there's not a damned thing I can do about it.

          What a complete a utter arse the law is! It seems that Tenants are allowed to do whatever the hell they want and as LL's we are obliged to treat them with kid gloves where really, they should be turfed out on their ear just on the basis of non-payment. Yes, I'm pretty riled with the whole situation!

          Re the TV licence a LL is only obliged to provide a licence if the contract does not state that it is the responsiblity of the T - which mine does, so based on that I am going to surrender what is left and try to get a refund and advise the T accordingly - or not!

          I have decided to give them until Saturday to pay, at which point they will then be two weeks in arrears and I will send them a letter - not recorded! - advising them of their obligations and see if that has any effect. According to the Shelter website we are obliged to do so.

          At least I can smile a bit now and will sleep better tonight, in the knowledge that come March 17th that cottage will be mine once again. I only have to stipulate on the AT6 that I require the property back for my own use, whatever that may be.

          I think this has served as proof that holidaymakers are much easier to deal with! lol.

          Comment


          • #20
            Well that sounds better - but was your solicitor a specialist in Landlord/tenant matters??

            AT6 etc does not oblige the tenant to leave, it does not end the tenancy: Many tenants leave when issued with notices but they don't have to.. You'd still need to go through the Sheriff to enforce their leaving....
            see..
            http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ured_tenants#1
            About the eviction process

            In most cases your landlord will need to follow the steps below in order to evict you. However, in a few cases, a landlord might be able to skip serving you a notice to quit (see below) . If you have any doubts you should get advice as soon as possible. The process is as follows:


            You will be served with a notice to quit.
            You will be served with a notice of proceedings.
            You will be sent a summons telling you when your case will be heard in court.
            Your case will come to court.
            Sheriff officers will be sent round to remove you from your property.

            Remember:

            This process takes a long time, and it may be possible to stop or delay the process at any time.
            Interesting view on TV licenses from your chap..

            I ask, again, are you registered, please??


            Cheers!
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

            Comment


            • #21
              I'm quite prepared to wait. I'll get there eventually. Don't see why I should allow them to disrupt my day to day life, my sleep and my Christmas. I have other things going on - mum diagnosed with cancer, very poorly horse etc. It's just stress all the way. Perhaps I'll just set fire to the place when they're out and have done with it!

              The TV license information was gathered by me - directly off their website, so straight from the horses mouth!

              YES I'M REGISTERED! I did tell you that before. lol.

              Comment


              • #22
                Quite right... You enjoy life...can't remember if in Scotland if the place burns down the landlord may still have to provide accommodation..LL does usually in England... I'd better look it up...
                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                Comment


                • #23
                  Of that I have absolutely no doubts. In fact they'd probably stipulate 5* at least! lol.

                  Actually had a conversation with someone this afternoon who tells me these two guys approached him to rent a bothy, claiming they were a joiner and a chef. He took one look at them and told them to leave, especially when they began suggesting that he gave them work too!!! Seems they've been to various places around the town trying to blag their way in, but I was the idiot who was taken in by them and their promises of payment etc. I thought they'd make ideal tenants, but I guess we all know what thought did!

                  We are now left wondering what to do if they refuse to allow us entry into the property to check in the attic for any signs of leaks, top up the rodent poison and check the electrics haven't been chewed. I expect once again they'll have the upper hand and be able to stop us - which is going to make our lives extremely difficult given that our own house's electricity meter is in their kitchen! This stems from the building having been a byre in bygone days.

                  Worst case scenario this is going to turn into a rediculous game of cat and mouse so I guess we will just have to take it day by day and wait to what hits the fan next.

                  Comment


                  • #24
                    Dropped a clanger!

                    Seems, despite my being sure that I'd issued my AT5 correctly, I actually haven't! Kicking myself now. For whatever reason I completely missed off the final page that T's were supposed to sign so what to do now?

                    Does that mean my SaT now becomes an AT or is everything just invalidated completely, leaving us with just a verbal contract?

                    Comment


                    • #25
                      All may not be lost...

                      IIRC (I'm not legally qualified..) there are two versions of AT5, with & without declaration.. i.e. the bit where the tenant signs, dates & times it.. (the one I would recommend).

                      The legal question is, "was AT5 served prior to when tenancy was signed??" & clearly if both documents are signed, dated & timed that's easier to prove. If however it's unsigned then would you have other evidence to prove it was served correctly??

                      I STRONGLY suggest you discuss matters with either SaL
                      http://www.scottishlandlords.com
                      or a SPECIALIST solicitor such as T C Young
                      http://www.tcyoung.co.uk/page/Privat...ng_Agents.aspx

                      Many tenants on receipt of notices2quit etc do just that, quit. Even if it they don't & the matter gets in front of the sheriff it would I guess come down to does the tenant challenge the validity & if so who does the Sheriff believe...

                      Remember this is a PUBLIC forum & ANYONE (eg Tenant..) could be viewing so suggest any further details are kept, err... vague... if you get my drift..

                      Best wishes! We all make mistakes, I made even worse ones when I started...

                      Cheers!

                      PS Please don't keep opening new threads.. it can be confusing if members don't see all the background and find it harder to help you...
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                      • #26
                        Apologies, should've continued previous thread. Just wasn't sure if I'd get a response if it appeared to be dragging on.

                        Comment


                        • #27
                          Two related threads have been merged.
                          I also post as Mars_Mug when not moderating

                          Comment


                          • #28
                            Is it a criminal offence not to issue a rent book?

                            Comment


                            • #29
                              Not sure, but I certainly doubt many if any landlords have ended up in court over this in Scotland (I could only find 2 instances in England..)

                              Rent books are only required when the tenancy states rent payable weekly. I note your first post says weekly paid rent, in cash.. but can you clarify, does the tenancy agreement state weekly rent??

                              (Call me old-fashioned but whenever cash is insisted upon I always get suspicious, for any transaction... wonder what they are trying to hide...).

                              See Housing (Scotland) Act 1988 Section 30...
                              http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/43/section/30
                              (4)Where, under an assured tenancy, rent is payable weekly, it shall be the duty of the landlord to provide a rent book.
                              (5)A rent book shall contain such notices which shall be in such form and shall relate to such matters as may be prescribed and otherwise shall comply with such requirements as may be prescribed.
                              (6)If, at any time, the landlord fails to comply with any requirement imposed by or under subsection (4) or (5) above he and any person who on his behalf demands or receives rent in respect of the tenancy shall be liable, on summary conviction, to a fine not exceeding level 4 on the standard scale.
                              regarding that fine see ...
                              http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Ju...7305/8036/8043
                              Up to £2,500.. (Nah, no chance, surely... )

                              It does say "summary conviction".. and I'm not legally qualified (entirely unqualified) enough to know if that makes it a criminal offence (bit heavy-handed if it does...)

                              Assuming rent is payable weekly & no rent book I'd do 2 things -
                              a) 'phone those nice guys at SaL for advice Monday morning - I'd hope that perhaps emailed rent-books might be OK but don't know...
                              b) Probably pop-off to Smiths Monday morning, get a rent book, fill it in, copy it & use that from now on: Sheriff Court case then very unlikely..

                              Forgive me being alarmist but these guys sound like they might be "professional tenants" who know how to play a landlord: PHONE SAL and /or talk to a SPECIALIST solicitor... please!!!

                              If the tenants have suggested it is a criminal offence my suspicions are re-inforced, and I'd start keeping a hand-written (date, time, who, what..) log of their harassments.,....

                              Best regards ... You will get them out , eventually: Cheers! Artful...

                              Good news is under Scottish law you have 20 years AFTER the Sheriff Court decree to recover any monies due, increasing all the time @ 8%. Now, where else can you get 8% return on an investment??

                              PS Also just noticed you refer to a deposit part-paid in your first post: Has it (even if only £5..) been protected in a protection scheme?? - Hope so.....
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                              Comment


                              • #30
                                Herewith a link to a rent-book from those experts, Shelter Scotland...
                                http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_a...ted_properties

                                & info from big 'Eck..
                                http://www.scotland.gov.uk/Topics/Bu...ts/money/rents

                                Rule: In an assured or short assured tenancy, if the rent is payable weekly, the landlord must provide a rent book and enter a receipt for each weekly payment. The rent book must contain a notice giving:

                                the landlord's name and address;
                                the amount of rent to be paid; and
                                a summary of the basic rights the tenant has under the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988.
                                - I would hope that is correct..

                                Also I was wrong, there do seem to have been prosecutions, (I assume this does mean that are criminal - but check with SaL..) see these tables from big 'Eck ---
                                79(2) is rent-book offences btw...
                                http://www.crownoffice.gov.uk/Prosec...tland-Act-1984

                                Interestingly (to chose one example at random..) there appear to be no prosecutions at all in D&G and, if I read it correctly, in all cases there was no conviction & no further action taken (presumably as when it got to court a rent book was being provided..)
                                I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                                Comment

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