Security Deposit

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    Security Deposit

    Hello everyone

    I have a question regarding the deposit protection in the UK since I am an exchange student from Germany.

    Today I received an email that my tenancy deposit is now secured by a tenancy deposit scheme. So far so good.
    Right after that, I got another email indicating that the LL protected my deposit too late and I, therefore, am able to take action against the LL. Within the email, it is stated that I may apply to the First-Tier Tribunal for Scotland and they would take care of further proceedings. As I don't know the UK laws for the Tenancy and these laws don't apply in Germany I am quite confused as one can imagine.

    Nevertheless, here are some hard facts:
    1. Start of Tenancy: 01/09/2019
    2. Deposit Protection: 22/11/2019
    3. Deposit Transferred: 01/07/2019

    According to the email the LL has to protect the deposit within 30 working days, which clearly did not happen.
    In addition, after researching the topic a bit, the LL did not inform me or any other flatmate on the deposit protection. I would not have even noticed it, because I did not know the necessity of the protection, as well as the UK Laws for it.

    My Questions for now are:
    1. Is it reasonable to take action against my LL?
    2. What further steps do I need to take?
    3. My Tenancy ends on 31/12/2019, should I take action before or after it? I clearly do not want to get evicted although the rent is in my opinion to high for a property like this in an area like this.
    4. Should I seek an agreement?

    Best Regards

    YEccard


    #2
    What are you aiming to achieve?

    You are unlikely to be detrimented, or you seem not to have been so far so is your aim to punish (you could do so, but are you the sort of person who would whip a dog in the street just for the sake of it if the law says you can?)

    As a landlord, it would benefit me if you were the dog-whipping kind of person, because I am a wiser landlord, and those sorts of actions drive up rents for everyone.

    Comment


      #3
      What makes you say tenancy ends 31/12/2019? It should be a PRT and go on forever unless you or landlord or FTT end it.

      Does landlord live in the same building?

      See, from the experts on housing and renting....
      https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_...eposit_schemes
      If you have paid a deposit and your landlord doesn't register it within 30 working days and provide you with the details above, then you can apply to the First-tier Tribunal for Scotland Housing and Property Chamber and the tribunal can order the landlord to pay you up to three times the amount of the deposit paid. You can do this up to three months after the tenancy has ended.

      If you apply to the tribunal during the term of your tenancy then the tribunal can also make the landlord adhere to the tenancy deposit regulations.

      More information & help from the website & Shelter Scotland 0808 800 4444

      I'm all in favour of landlords being encouraged to obey the law: And agents: And tenants: Deposit protection laws are just one small part of that encouragement (as we all know before they came in landlords cheated tenants left right & centre.

      Artful: Scottish landlord
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        STRONGLY suggest you 'phone Shelter Scotland: I'm not sure what sort of tenancy you actually have (which may not be what the paperwork says it is..). Need to establish this first, then work out if deposit protection applies.

        PRT means this...
        https://scotland.shelter.org.uk/get_...ential_tenancy

        I suspect it is a PRT and thus doesn't end when it purports to end...

        Slàinte mhath!
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          Sending out a letter that states the deposit hasn't been lodged in time is something new that the tenancy deposit schemes have started to do.

          I think it is a stage too far and encourages disputes between landlords and tenants.

          The dates for lodging deposits are fine if you have one property but if you have a lot of properties and want to lodge say a month as a batch then the deadlines are far too tight especially as the process for lodging large batches of deposits is very clunky and time consuming.

          You have to manually e-mail the deposit scheme with your file upload, wait for them to upload the deposits. If there is an issue with the file upload that gets sent back to be amended. At this point sometimes the payment and upload are matched and the deposits are lodged but sometimes you have to login and match them manually and the only trigger you have is that you haven't received an e-mail to say the deposit is lodged.

          In the example above the Landlord had 30 working days to lodge the deposit and lodged it 36 working days hardly the crime of the century and certainly doesn't warrant them being fined 3* the deposit amount because the tenant "doesn't like them".

          Shelter Scotland and the Scottish Government have dug a hole and covered it with branches for landlords to fall into.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by Sandi View Post
            Shelter Scotland and the Scottish Government have dug a hole and covered it with branches for landlords to fall into.
            It is of course tenants who ultimately have fallen into the hole made for them by the people you mention.

            Comment


              #7
              The new rules on this are very welcome news for tenants
              https://www.tcyoung.co.uk/blog/2019/...deposit-update

              Scottish Govt doing right by tenants to help them understand their rights, and encouraging them to use the (free) Tribunal service that is there to help them get their redress. Landlords must understand their obligations and meet them; 30 days is plenty long enough. Gotta stop with the silly excuses - if you fall into any holes then you only have yourselves to blame. Landlords asking tenants to throw you some slack are probably the biggets hypocrites of them all.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Sandi View Post
                In the example above the Landlord had 30 working days to lodge the deposit and lodged it 36 working days hardly the crime of the century and certainly doesn't warrant them being fined
                Would you like to try that excuse if you were summoned for driving 36 mph in a 30 mph zone and see how far it would get you?

                A legal limit is a legal limit, if you exceed that limit then you have broken the law and must accept the consequences if caught.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Two points:

                  I think people who have to lodge a lot of deposits will recognise that the current system has not taken them into account. My understanding is that the Council of Letting Agents are currently advising agents to lodge deposits every 25 days. This is not working days this is actual days. Can you tell me any other system that is based on 25 days? Surely it makes more sense to work on a monthly system and at present the current system does not allow you to do this.

                  2 The penalty is too severe for the infringement. The penalty for lodging a deposit late is three times the deposit amount. As the maximum deposit in Scotland is equivalent to two months rent then the penalty for lodging a deposit 6 days late is the equivalent to six months rent.

                  I am not encouraging Landlords or Letting Agents to break the law. I am merely pointing out the huge flaw in the system and rather than fixing the system they are encouraging tenants to take advantage of this flaw.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    I believe we have been through all of this before in previous threads.

                    1- If you are setting a time limit you have to set it somewhere, and a month would seem to be plenty of time.
                    Wherever you set that limit there are always going to be those who leave things as late as possible and these will be the ones that occasionally come unstuck.
                    If it was set a 3 months, someone would come unstuck and then complain that it should be six months (Which they would then probably still miss).

                    If you chose to lodge deposits periodically as in your example then why 25 days? What's wrong with each week or each fortnight?

                    2- The scale of the penalty has been set to incentivise the tenant to do the 'policing' of the limit so that the government doesn't have to, as well as being sufficent to encourage tardy/negligent landlords to get their act together with deposit protection.
                    It's been set up that way so that it costs the government nothing, (or very little), if they set up a department to check on every deposit it would cost millions at least.


                    TBH as a landlord you should know this law and you don't realy have any excuse for not complying.
                    Same as with my example above there is no real excuse for breaking the speed limit.
                    Funny how it's those who get caught that complain that the limit is too low and the penalty too strict in both cases.
                    If you stay within the law then you are not bothered what the penalty for not doing so is.

                    Fair enough everyone makes the occasional mistake.
                    If/when you do you know you're wrong, so should take it on the chin and learn your lesson.
                    Being hit in the wallet is a powerful incentive to be more careful in future.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by nukecad View Post
                      I believe we have been through all of this before in previous threads.

                      1- If you are setting a time limit you have to set it somewhere, and a month would seem to be plenty of time.
                      Wherever you set that limit there are always going to be those who leave things as late as possible and these will be the ones that occasionally come unstuck.
                      If it was set a 3 months, someone would come unstuck and then complain that it should be six months (Which they would then probably still miss).

                      If you chose to lodge deposits periodically as in your example then why 25 days? What's wrong with each week or each fortnight?

                      2- The scale of the penalty has been set to incentivise the tenant to do the 'policing' of the limit so that the government doesn't have to, as well as being sufficent to encourage tardy/negligent landlords to get their act together with deposit protection.
                      It's been set up that way so that it costs the government nothing, (or very little), if they set up a department to check on every deposit it would cost millions at least.


                      TBH as a landlord you should know this law and you don't realy have any excuse for not complying.
                      Same as with my example above there is no real excuse for breaking the speed limit.
                      Funny how it's those who get caught that complain that the limit is too low and the penalty too strict in both cases.
                      .
                      If I lodged deposits weekly rather than every twenty five days I would have to spend four times as long lodging deposits.

                      40 working days would have been a far more sensible time frame and allow larger landlords and agents to lodge a months batch at a time.

                      I would add that I have neither failed to comply nor been caught but don’t think the current system has been particularly well thought through.

                      I suspect that in a few years deposits will have been replaced by alternatives as the law around them starts having unintended consequences.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        If you are having to lodge multiple deposits each month then presumably you are an agent lodging them for multiple Landlords?
                        In which case you are already charging the landlord for the work, so employ a part timer to do them once a week.

                        Or you have a very large portfolio of your own to manage and you should be employing someone to do your admin, self employed business that grow larger have at some point to employ staff.

                        The question of not having deposits at all is another topic that's been well covered before on this forum, many think that taking a deposit, and trying to claim damages from it, is just too much trouble now that the laws on deposit protection have been tightened so that the LL/agent can't just keep them and the tenant has to sue to get them back.
                        LL's/agents doing that was what the protection scheme was brought in to stop in the first place.

                        The usual suggested alternative is to put the rent up and put some on one side to cover the possibility of future damage.
                        My suspicion is that rents would be put up using that reason/excuse, then if there was to be damage the tenant would still be sued as well.
                        A question of having your cake and eating it?

                        One thing not taking a deposit would put a stop to is the issue of leaving tenants wanting to use the deposit for the final months rent.

                        Of course if taking a deposit was made illegal, as tenent fees have been, then the whole issue would go away. - Only to be replaced by the issue of getting compenastion for any damage, which is why deposits were first taken.
                        Round and round in circles.

                        But as long as we do have deposits then the onus must be on whoever is taking them, the LL/agent, to manage them properly in accordance with the law as it stands.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by YEccard

                          I am aiming to achieve a compensation because the LL clearly is not obeying the Law.
                          This is not about compensation. You can only get compensation for actual losses. This is a penalty, much like a criminal court fine, except that it is handled by civil processes and the money goes to the tenant, not to the State.

                          Comment

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                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by leaseholder64
                            This is not about compensation. You can only get compensation for actual losses. This is a penalty, much like a criminal court fine, except that it is handled by civil processes and the money goes to the tenant, not to the State....
                            02-12-2019, 10:03 AM
                          • Security Deposit
                            by YEccard
                            Hello everyone

                            I have a question regarding the deposit protection in the UK since I am an exchange student from Germany.

                            Today I received an email that my tenancy deposit is now secured by a tenancy deposit scheme. So far so good.
                            Right after that, I got another email...
                            25-11-2019, 17:24 PM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by nukecad
                            If you are having to lodge multiple deposits each month then presumably you are an agent lodging them for multiple Landlords?
                            In which case you are already charging the landlord for the work, so employ a part timer to do them once a week.

                            Or you have a very large portfolio of your...
                            02-12-2019, 05:16 AM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by Sandi
                            If I lodged deposits weekly rather than every twenty five days I would have to spend four times as long lodging deposits.

                            40 working days would have been a far more sensible time frame and allow larger landlords and agents to lodge a months batch at a time.

                            I would add that...
                            01-12-2019, 21:56 PM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by nukecad
                            I believe we have been through all of this before in previous threads.

                            1- If you are setting a time limit you have to set it somewhere, and a month would seem to be plenty of time.
                            Wherever you set that limit there are always going to be those who leave things as late as possible...
                            01-12-2019, 14:13 PM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by Sandi
                            Two points:

                            I think people who have to lodge a lot of deposits will recognise that the current system has not taken them into account. My understanding is that the Council of Letting Agents are currently advising agents to lodge deposits every 25 days. This is not working days this is actual...
                            01-12-2019, 09:56 AM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by nukecad
                            Would you like to try that excuse if you were summoned for driving 36 mph in a 30 mph zone and see how far it would get you?

                            A legal limit is a legal limit, if you exceed that limit then you have broken the law and must accept the consequences if caught....
                            01-12-2019, 01:36 AM
                          • Reply to Security Deposit
                            by mooch
                            The new rules on this are very welcome news for tenants
                            https://www.tcyoung.co.uk/blog/2019/...deposit-update

                            Scottish Govt doing right by tenants to help them understand their rights, and encouraging them to use the (free) Tribunal service that is there to help...
                            30-11-2019, 20:40 PM
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