Landlord refusing to accept I have PRT

Collapse
X
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Landlord refusing to accept I have PRT

    Hi there,

    I am really hoping that you can help me. I am in a very difficult stressful situation with my landlord and I don't know who to turn to.

    I am a student and have fallen out with my flat mate, we want to end our tenancy but the landlord is making us stay until September and has threatened legal action. We signed an SAT in Aug 2017 and that was for 12 months, then in August this year the landlord made us sign another 12 month SAT.

    Because this was signed in August 2018 this should have been a PRT but he is refusing to accept this and has sent the same link to me 9 times (not exaggerating) and says that he was allowed to do one last SAT at the ish of the old SAT. He keeps telling me this is the advice he has from the Scottish Association of Landlords and will sue us if we leave earlier, they will not speak to me to confirm this which is annoying as surely they should be able to confirm the advice they have made to there members? (Is it possible for anyone to contact them to see why they are giving the wrong advice?)

    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/20...ulation/6/made

    the counter legislation I have found is below, that confirms that what he is referring to is the 1 month rolling contract would be a SAT but as his document was a new agreement this should still be a PRT.

    https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/43/section/32

    Please please please help me. I have spoken to shelter, CAB and Fife council and they all say I should be able to leave. I have forwarded him links from lots of companies saying we should be able to leave with 28 days notice but he will not accept this. I have no idea who I can turn to and I just desperately need this resolved. He is a professional landlord who runs his own property letting company and he has put me into so much panic and worry it is difficult to sleep.

    Kind regards,

    #2
    He can charge you what he wants- you either pay or don't
    If he takes you to the Housing and Property Tribunal HE has to prove he is right and you are wrong
    He may have a hard time doing this.

    You either capitulate or call his bluff- I suspect he may he all talk (or email link) and no action once he realizes his case is doomed.

    However you must be professional and ensure you send any notices by a method you can prove.

    Keep calm and don't let the plonker grind you down- the more you look like you are in control the better for you.

    Comment


      #3
      Agree with baldelectrian:

      He (Landlord not balde..) is wrong, you, Shelter, CaB & Council are right. But you can't force him to accept this before leaving or before any court or FTT hearing:

      Any (almost***) tenancy started after 1st December 2017 is an PRT: Regardless of what the paperwork says...

      So, simply re-state your position, briefly, confirm you are leaving when your notice expires (ensure you are out, place cleared, keys returned/shoved through letter box before 23:59 that day), take loads of photos, ideally date/time-stamped, then leave. Claim your deposit.

      See if he takes action against you in Housing and Property Tribunal/FTT - I'm confident you will win.

      I'm a SaL member, looked at their documentation, am sure he's wrong. He may have confused what happens if a landlord/tenant simply let the old SaT agreement roll-on (as per terms of tenancy agreement or under "tacit relocation"), not signing any new deal. In that case the "old" SaT does continue, I've one some 5 years old still running, but nothing new signed. New signed deal - it's a PRT, even if it says otherwise.

      Don't let him bully you.

      Let us know how things progress, good luck!

      NB This assume your notice was valid: See...
      http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/legal...wants_to_leave
      - so if, for example, you & flat-mate gave notice 01/11/2018 with expiry date 30/11/2018 but only posted it 02/11/2018 it wouldn't be valid as not served by 02/11/2018. Or if notice given verbally.


      NNB*** -except see...
      http://scotland.shelter.org.uk/legal...tial_tenancies
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #4
        Also perhaps email your esteemed landlord with a link
        https://forums.landlordzone.co.uk/fo...ept-i-have-prt
        to this thread.

        Perhaps he can better explain his thinking... ( ... aye, right, as the Scots saying has it..)

        Slàinte mhath!
        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

        Comment


          #5
          Thank you for your responses, I will follow your advise as everything I research says the same. I just don't understand why the Scottish association of landlords would tell him something different.

          i will let you know how I get on.

          Comment


            #6
            You & I don't know what SaL told him, only what he says he was told. I suspect he didn't understand what he was told and misinterpreted it
            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

            Comment


              #7
              I think that this might be the issue that is being disputed (quote taken from a large well known Scottish Letting agent's website):

              If a fixed term SAT ends and the landlord and tenant both wish to continue the tenancy, they may. This can be via another fixed term SAT, or on a month-by-month basis. However for any SAT to continue, it must be the same tenants at the same address.

              Comment


                #8
                Thanks for your post Sandi,

                That is exactly what he is telling me, as we are the same tenants he was allowed to do another fixed term SAT. But I do not think this is right as the legislation that this refers to is in context to the rolling contract that commences at the end of a SAT fixed term.

                What are everybody's thought's on this, why would a large estate agent say this? Could it be correct?


                this is one of his many emails along the same lines.




                Thanks. I’m aware of all of those pages and they’re all good sources. However, at a reasonably high level, they don’t refer to exact lines of legislation nor consider exceptions.
                >
                As you’ll see from the advice from the Scottish Association of Landlords, they’ve referenced this exact piece of legislation.
                >
                http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ssi/20...ulation/6/made
                >
                If you specifically look at the first two lines of 6, and then point c, then you’ll see why they’re saying that a deal can be put in place after 1 December 2017, based upon previous legislation (SAT) where the 6c is met. For ease, the text is:
                > Saving provision

                6. Despite the amendments made by section 75 and paragraphs 1, 2 and 3 of schedule 5 of the 2016 Act, sections 12, 32(1) and 33(2) of the 1988 Act have effect on and after 1st December 2017 as they had effect immediately before that date but only in relation to—

                (c)
                a new contractual tenancy (within the meaning given in section 32(3)(b) of the 1988 Act) which comes into being on or after 1st December 2017 at the ish of a short assured tenancy which is a short assured tenancy in a case mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b).
                >
                I hope this makes sense, and you see why they’re saying that a SAT is correct in the circumstances we have. Please let me know once you’ve had a chance to consider this in detail,
                >



                My response was...


                This is the legislation that you forwarded to myself that does lead you to believe that you can start a new tenancy agreement at the end of your previous one.


                c)a new contractual tenancy (within the meaning given in section 32(3)(b) of the 1988 Act) which comes into being on or after 1st December 2017 at the ish of a short assured tenancy which is a short assured tenancy in a case mentioned in paragraph (a) or (b).




                Here is the key point in that section - (within the meaning given in section 32(3)(b) of the 1988 Act)




                Here is section 32(3)(b) with which it refers.



                Subject to subsection (4) below, if, at the finish of a short assured tenancy—

                (a)it continues by tacit relocation; F1...

                F1(b). . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . .the continued tenancy F2... shall be a short assured tenancy, whether or not it fulfils the conditions in paragraphs (a) and (b) of subsection (1) above.




                Again the key points here are - 'at the finish of a short assured tenancy' 'the continued tenancy shall be a short assured tenancy,'


                https://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/43/section/32


                This means that at the end of my 12 month Short assured tenancy (SAT), it would have reverted to the one month rolling contract but still have been a SAT. However as the new agreement was not a continuation of previous agreement this is void. The new SAT that you sent to me is a new new agreement demonstrated by the return of your previous deposit at this time.


                I should have been provided with the Private Residential Tenancy (PRT) and the new protections that this offers





                Comment


                  #9
                  Thanks for the post Sandi,

                  this is is exactly the issue, he thinks that you can start another SAT at the end as we are the same tenants in the same property. I do not think this is right though, but if not why would a large estate agent have it stated, have they made a mistake?

                  what are everyone's thoughts?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    As advised in my post # 3
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by Jarman View Post
                      Thanks for the post Sandi,

                      this is is exactly the issue, he thinks that you can start another SAT at the end as we are the same tenants in the same property. I do not think this is right though, but if not why would a large estate agent have it stated, have they made a mistake?

                      what are everyone's thoughts?
                      T C Young tend to be the authority on housing law in Scotland and their blog is really helpful for this kind of stuff.

                      I found this quote on the blog link below:

                      "The Scottish Government has recently published guidance for landlords which provides advice contrary to the current legislative provisions in that it states “On the date the new tenancy comes in to force, any existing short assured or assured tenancy will continue until either the tenant or you bring it to an end by serving notice to quit the let property. If your tenant’s short assured tenancy is renewing on a contractual basis, this can continue to renew under the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988 until either you or the tenant bring it to an end by serving notice to quit the let property".

                      https://www.tcyoung.co.uk/blog/2017/...cy-in-scotland

                      So this would suggest that you are on a short assured tenancy. Normal practice in this situation would be to come to an agreement to pay the LLs re-letting costs and for the property to be re-advertised so that your liability for rent ends when a new tenant moves in.

                      This is probably not what you want to hear but at least it stops you paying for the full period and getting into a dispute that you are unlikely to win.

                      Hope this helps!

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Sandi View Post
                        .........etc etc etc................. If your tenant’s short assured tenancy is renewing on a contractual basis, this can continue to renew under the Housing (Scotland) Act 1988 until either you or the tenant bring it to an end by serving notice to quit the let property".........................etc etc etc!
                        Interesting Sandi!

                        I think that mean it is renewing already under the orignal SaT contract - like the old SaL standard SaT that had this clause in it....
                        If this agreement is not brought to an end by either party on the end date it will continue thereafter on a monthly basis until terminated by either party giving no less than two months notice to the other party.
                        - rather than is renewed by a new printed and signed renewed tenancy...

                        But I guess the only way to find out is for OP to leave, landlord sues for unpaid rent through FTT and we get a decision.

                        Comments on the TC Young blog are closed so can't ask (unless Sandi you have contacts?).

                        I agree, TC Young v good quality operation.

                        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Recently noticed this in SaL factsheet on PRT.... see...
                          https://scottishlandlords.com/resour...ntial-tenancy/
                          Existing tenancies

                          The new regime does not affect existing tenancies such as assured and short assured
                          tenancies provided the fixed term is still running or they are renewing by tacit relocation.
                          These will continue to operate under the old regime.

                          Legal opinion had been divided on whether a short assured tenancy which is renewing on a
                          contractual basis (typically on a month to month basis) would become a PRT at the first
                          contractual renewal after the new legislation is implemented. SAL raised concerns about this
                          situation with the Scottish Government and in response the government decided to issue
                          legislation to ensure that tenancies of this type will not become PRTs. They will continue as
                          short assured tenancies in perpetuity until terminated by the landlord or tenant.
                          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Thanks for all of your help, i am just giving you an update.

                            I think I am getting somewhere now as he has accepted that we are leaving. We were meant to leave on the 8th (but cleaned up and moved most of our things out last week) but he was refusing to come round and check us out of the property and go through the inventory.

                            I followed advice in a separate thread that said make sure to get lots of photos before sending the keys to him, so I went round last night to take photos. When I arrived my key wouldn't work and I realised he has changed the locks? The few things in the flat of mine are not important and was going to bin anyway, I just thought it ur very strange he has changed the locks.

                            i will let you know when/if I get my deposit back.

                            Comment

                            Latest Activity

                            Collapse

                            Working...
                            X