Gas safety check required for tenants own gas cooker

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  • Gas safety check required for tenants own gas cooker

    Hi,

    we rent out a place out and have always had an annual gas safety check for the boiler and gas cooker (supplied by landlord) The cooker has now broken and we want to replace with an electric cooker to avoid need to maintain the appliance gas safety check.

    The tenant has said they only want a gas cooker, not electric, and are happy to supply their own. My question is if the tenant decides to supply their own gas cooker do we still have a responsibility to perform annual appliance gas safety checks?

    Thanks

  • #2
    AIUI you do annual GSC for landlord bits, tenant can decide if he wants his tested or not at his expense... and LL does not have responsibility to test tenant's kit..

    Suspect the GSC website would have given you the answer if you'd looked....
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


    • #3
      why are you moving the goal posts for your tenants?

      I know why, it's to save you money !

      You supplied a property with a Gas cooker in, and that's what the
      tenant was happy with, and on the inventory.
      They had a gas cooker before, it is broken, and are expecting
      you to replace it with another gas cooker. --That's what you do.

      I hate electric cookers and would never consider anywhere
      with an uncontrolable electrical cooker.

      Don't be so mean..................

      The gas cooker was rented off you, and if they buy their own, then
      I would be wanting a rent reduction.

      R.a.M.
      Last edited by ram; 13-02-2013, 21:31 PM. Reason: Rent reduction added

      Comment


      • #4
        Do you trust this T enough to install their own gas device?

        If it blows up, it's their cooker and your house.

        You will still need a Safety Check for the boiler. I don't expect there would be any extra charge for the cooker.

        Personally, I never install gas cookers from the off, but do do GCH.

        ML
        Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by midlandslandlord View Post
          Do you trust this T enough to install their own gas device?

          If it blows up, it's their cooker and your house.
          OP should tell T that it's OK if new cooker installed by professional, then.
          I'm sure 80%+ of homes have a gas cooker but you don't see houses blowing up all over the place

          Comment


          • #6
            I've installed 2 gas cookers myself. It's easy ( or it was with the
            2 i got )

            It's just a push and twist connector on the pipe / wall, and
            identical action to fitting a light bulb. Push and twist.

            You don't have to be a "professional" to fit a light bulb.

            But having said that, some don't come with the flexible pipe
            fitted onto the cooker, and you need that thin white tape to
            wrap round the screw thead for a good seal, and 1 large
            spanner / mole grip to tighten up the connection.
            Or they have a double ended connector ( similar to water
            pipe conectors ) and you need a set of spanners.
            ( Full tool kit is not what a tenant is expected to have )

            So in that case, I would not trust the average tenant to ensure
            leak proof connection.
            Ask to see the bill from a professional for fitting, and if one
            supplied, then get your own to check the instalation, charged
            to the tenant.

            R.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
              OP should tell T that it's OK if new cooker installed by professional, then.
              I'm sure 80%+ of homes have a gas cooker but you don't see houses blowing up all over the place
              Correct.

              However, what is the likelihood of T being diligent with gas safety certificates? Or for the gas engineer to assume that it is yours? Or the admin time to supervise the T installation and maintenance - are there Court cases on Duty of Care in thse circumstances?

              Digging around, deaths from domestic gas installations are around 10-20 a year, of which ~75% are CO poisoning.

              Total incidents are 200-250, of which about 30 are explosions.

              Injuries (non-fatal) are 300-400, which is significantly up in 2008 to 2012, wrt 2000-2008. That injuries figure, nearly all due to CO, seems to have doubled over 10 years.

              Landlords prosecuted for gas safety violations (many essentially administrative) are reported all the time.

              Make of that what you will; I don't think it is worth the buggeration.

              I know an LL who had a T-installed dangerous gas cooker disconnected professionally as it was assessed as dangerous; mate of T reconnected it. They are switching it to electricity eventually after serving Section 21 with T agreement.

              Stats Source:
              www.hse.gov.uk/statistics/tables/ridgas.xls
              http://www.publications.parliament.u...08121786000585

              ML
              Refer Mad Regulators to Arkell vs Pressdram.

              Comment


              • #8
                Landlord is not liable for safety of appliance installed and belonging to tenants.
                As mentioned he can agree on condition that cooker is new (as opposed to untraceable second hand) and fitted by professional, just to cover himself and his insurance cover.

                10-20 deaths a year out of 60+ millions people means that it's probably still safer than having a walk in the street...

                Or for the gas engineer to assume that it is yours?
                I would assume that when a landlord instructs a gas engineer he lets him know the details.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Any of the tenant's own gas appliances will be listed as present but not tested by the GSR engineer on the Gas Safety Inspection Report.

                  Any NEW gas cookers must always be fitted by a GSR engineer by law and they will not be supplied with the hose /bayonnete fitting.

                  Once a cooker has the fitting attached it can be installed by anyone....
                  Except a landlord.
                  IF a landlord supplies any gas appliance it MUST be fitted by a gas registered engineer - that is the law.
                  When you fit your own yes you just plug it in like a light bulb.
                  BUT
                  When a GSR engineer installs it he will do a load of tests to check it is safe - the tests are laid out in the Gas Safety Regulation 1998. He will also give you some evidence that he has done these checks - that way as a landlord you do not have to get a New Gas safety check done - because your old one hasn't got the cooker on.

                  This is why engineers typically quote around £75 or so to fit a cooker but the public expect it to be £20!

                  If your tenant is to supply the cooker it may be a good idea to specify that it must be to current standards and new - and perhaps as the lanlord you could contribute some ££ towards buying/fitting it.
                  When I say "we" I mean my husband does it whilst I read and write about it! Mrs Tara Plumbing doesn't do plumbing."

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by Mrs Tara Plumbing View Post
                    ...

                    Once a cooker has the fitting attached it can be installed by anyone....
                    Except a landlord....
                    .....
                    Thanks Mrs Tara, very helpful guidance: What law or regulation please says anyone except landlord can install??
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mrs Tara Plumbing View Post
                      Once a cooker has the fitting attached it can be installed by anyone....
                      Except a landlord.
                      IF a landlord supplies any gas appliance it MUST be fitted by a gas registered engineer - that is the law.
                      When you fit your own yes you just plug it in like a light bulb.
                      BUT
                      When a GSR engineer installs it he will do a load of tests to check it is safe - the tests are laid out in the Gas Safety Regulation 1998.
                      Here is the section of those regs which deals with the duties of landlords - I'm not seeing anything there that would forbid a landlord from plugging in a new oven (with hose/bayonet fitting).

                      He will also give you some evidence that he has done these checks - that way as a landlord you do not have to get a New Gas safety check done - because your old one hasn't got the cooker on.
                      But that would only be necessary for a second-hand oven; a new gas appliance is good for 12 months before it needs to feature on the CP12 cert.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        A new gas oven does not come with the hose & boyonet... a GSR engineer should be employed to fit the hose/bayonet, regardless of whether it is for a landlord or homeowner.

                        And.
                        A different issue but many landlords may not realise -
                        Although the legislation that you link to does spell out the letter of the law - some of the detail of how to achieve that is in secondary documents such as the Approved Code of Conduct. It is in that ACOP it is spelt out that you must have a Gas safety check between tenants not just annually.
                        Last week A GSR engineer known to me was surprised to find a gas cooker in a property - the tenant said the landlord provided it. The landlord didn't know it was there - it was left by previous tenant. The landlord thought the letting agent would deal with it. But as the landlord was responsible for gas safety and had not contracted that issue to the letting agent it really was the landlord's responsibility - BTW there were numerous faults with the cooker.
                        If the landlord had arranged a Gas safe inspection between tenants - as required - this potentially unsafe situation would not have arisen.
                        When I say "we" I mean my husband does it whilst I read and write about it! Mrs Tara Plumbing doesn't do plumbing."

                        Comment


                        • #13

                          a new gas appliance is good for 12 months before it needs to feature on the CP12 cert.
                          That is true.
                          But only the GSR engineer can fit the new hose to the new cooker.
                          When I say "we" I mean my husband does it whilst I read and write about it! Mrs Tara Plumbing doesn't do plumbing."

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            I repeat........

                            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                            Thanks Mrs Tara, very helpful guidance: What law or regulation please says anyone except landlord can install??
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                              I repeat........
                              You spotted my sloppy language!
                              I am sure my post here is the only place were you will find it written:
                              ...anyone except landlord can install....
                              I should have said any one can install a second had cooker in their own home (including a tenant) if it already has the hose & b fitted.
                              BUT a landlord shouldn't fit a second hand cooker in his rented property - the landlord can pay a GSR engineer to do it.

                              Long winded - hope its clearer....

                              Perhaps I should qualify that too.
                              If the second hand cooker if fitted by the landlord who then has a Gas safety inspection done before a tenant moves in that should be OK. Because the gas appliance will be checked for safety.
                              But if you are fitting a second hand cooker you also want to makes sure it meets all the requirements - so the GSR engineer does not condemn it when he sees it.
                              When I say "we" I mean my husband does it whilst I read and write about it! Mrs Tara Plumbing doesn't do plumbing."

                              Comment

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