Carbon Monoxide detectors, England.

  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    Carbon Monoxide detectors, England.

    So, new Information came out today and I've read through it a couple of times and I still don't know what I need to install. Is a 10 year battery CO2 alarm ok? do I need interlinked smoke alarms and a heat alarm in the kitchen? I'm not sure if I'm stupid or if the government have not offered any clear advice of what they want installed. I'm holding out until I can install the correct equipment. I've made this mistake before and paid out twice for the same service.

    Do I need mains powered interlinked smoke and heat alarms and a mains powered CO2 alarm? Can the CO alarm be separate? Does it need to be hard wired or is battery (10 year ok) Any advice greatly appreciated

    Is this HMO?


      No, not HMO.

      2 & 3 bed semis in England. Any that have been rewired we have mains powered smoke alarms fitted and 1 has a heat detector in the kitchen but don't know if they are interlinked.
      Others have 10 year sealed battery smoke alarms that are not interlinked.
      Trying to work out if I need to have them all removed and interlinked alarms installed and if 10 year sealed battery carbon monoxide detectors are acceptable.

      I'm having the electrician upgrade the consumer unit, install smoke, heat and carbon monoxide alarms and carry out an EIRC on a new house next week so would like the correct ones installing at this time.

      It's only when I was looking at Screwfix that I realized legislation in Scotland is different to England.


        Of course the government guidance is not clear.
        They want you to install the best, not just what will do.

        On the other hand if you pay for the best now you won't be having to pay out twice, once for "just about adequate" then later for 'a bit better' then .....

        Usually if you can afford it then get the good spec. rather than having to change/upgrade it again later.


          10 year sealed battery ones (not interlinked) are fine

          Higher specs are not going to save any more lives (or at least no more than the number that will die as a result of environmental degradation if you throw away existing things)


            Thank you Nukecad,

            I thought that it was maybe me having problems interpenetrating this.

            For the house that needs doing next week, It will be belts and braces, to try to pre empt what the clowns are going to implement in the future. It's not a full rewire, which is why I'm still concerned about the Carbon monoxide. I've read conflicting info of where they should be installed. CO seems to be lighter than air, recommendations I've seen are from ceiling to chest height. So I have still no idea, but thinking the lower the better, providing they can not be tampered with. The whole thing seems to be so vague? I/m trying to look more into the Scottish regs and err on the side of their legislation.

            I made the mistake of jumping on the band wagon too early with the EIRC's when legislation was coming out in dribs and drabs, and ended up having them all done to the wrong regs. I'm trying to avoid doing the same mistake again.

            I don't want to keep ignoring it, but I don't want to have to do the work twice (again).


              Don't know if it's any help but,

              When I moved into my new flat last year (Social Housing) they had just installed, during the tenancy void, new mains-wired heat, smoke, and CO alarms on the ceilings. (heat and CO in the kitchen, optical smoke in the hallway).
              The wiring for the ones in the kitchen is run in plastic trunking up the wall.
              They are all Aico/Ei electronics brand.

              There is also a portable/mountable CO alarm with a 10 year sealed battery that if unmounted can be moved where wanted. (Aico Model Ei208w)
              As there's a wired one in the kitchen mine sits on top of the bedroom wardrobe, but for a bedroom it should really be level with the bed itself (breathing level).

              I should think that the portable/mountable one should be sufficient for what you want/need, both for kitchen and bedrooms, take a look at the product page:
              They seem to sell for about £35 with the app option below -

              All the alarms I have here, including the portable one, can be read using an app so that their status and activity history can be downloaded to a smartphone, which is handy for a landlords records of testing, etc. (You can get them cheaper without that option).

              Mine are not interlinked, although interlinked versions are available (wireless link).
              There again I only have a 1-bedroom flat so I'm going to hear them anyway linked or not..


                I'm, afraid this whole thread is indicative of how badly off track the whole issue of landlord regulation and legislation has gone, and how irrelevant it is to managing actual risk.

                So while we (and the powers that be) are having great discussions about "hard wired" - "interlinked" and so on

                We are ignoring the fact that many Fire and CO alarms on the market simply don't work properly, however they are wired

                Which! reports have put many detectors on a DO NOT BUY LIST. Many are just not fit for purpose

                Including the interlinked, wired ones recommended by nukecad above


                In a similar way many gas safety checks, EPCs and other related things are just not fit for purpose - but as long as the boxes get ticked, all is well.

                I'd prefer to have 5 or 6 10 year sealed battery standalone fire and CO detectors in a 3 bed semi, than 2 hardwired box-ticking irrelevancies


                  Irrespective of whether a property is let or a HMO or a private residence the ideal solution for smokes and heats are mains powered, lithium units from Aico. Not the cheapest , but the best

                  as for carbon monoxide alarms, I recommend you seek advice directly from the Aico website or technical people.


                    CO2 detector is no use. Carmon Monoxide is CO , not CO2
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...


                      Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                      CO2 detector is no use. Carmon Monoxide is CO , not CO2
                      Those CO2 detectors go off all the time.


                        Thank you all for taking the time to reply.

                        Firstly, The artful and gnvqsos, I keep making that mistake and yes, 1 is around 79% of the atmosphere, the other 1 will kill you. My apologies.

                        Nukad, thanks for the info on the EI alarms. I'll check into them and know the company well as I think that are built in Shannon, Ireland, where I used to live and know people at the company. And Andrew, I'm looking into your reports also, which seem to say that they don't work.
                        It's such a minefield out there knowing what to buy.
                        Wish that the government would just put it in black and white and say what they want and what is acceptable.

                        I just wish I had an idea of what is going to reach legislation. Both with CO detectors and smoke alarms. Andrew, thanks for not making me feel like the only person that uses some sealed battery alarms. The hard wired ones dont seem any better as they use a 9V battery as a back up that needs replacing every few years and apparently my tenants do not know how to do this, so another £40 fee per alarm from an electrician.

                        These were fitted a few years ago and at the time I believed them to be acceptable. I'll end up doing as much as possible for the new property, but doing a hard wired C) detector will cause a lot of upset or plastic trunking. Laminate flooring and re plastering. If I can get around it, due to laminate flooring. Also Are heat alarms required in a 2 bed semi? The whole house seems to have laminate flooring, so ripping it up is going to be very expensive.


                          I wasn't particularly recommending them, just saying what the Housing Asociation fitted here last year.

                          Reading that Which report I find it somewhat misleading.
                          The CO detectors worked fine - Until after the testers had flooded them with '"catastophic" levels of CO, to which they reacted as they should but then would no longer react to lower levels.
                          In one of our tests, we flooded three of the Aico alarms with a catastrophic level of carbon monoxide to which they responded correctly and sounded. But later, when we tested them with a lower but still dangerous level of the gas, none of the three alarms sounded.
                          So the testers had deliberately overloaded them, that's called 'destruction testing' and you don't expect something to still work properly after you have deliberately pushed it beyond it's limits.

                          PS. I can't comment on my CO alarms, but I know that the Heat/Smoke alarms do work.
                          I found that out when I got a new electric cooker and as recommended was 'burning off' the coating of the oven and hobs.


                            Which! also refused to provide their test methods to Aico to recreate. The whole CO thing was shady as ****. Like when they test a 5 quid alarm against a nest protect rather than testing the nest against a alarm of similar quality.
                            Also re 9v batteries in alarms no new hard wired alarms in rentals should be using them they should have sealed back up batteries this was changed quite some time back but as the none sealed are dirt cheap they keep getting fitted.


                              Thank you to everyone that has replied. I'm still confused about what is acceptable and what isnt. I found this today:


                              Apparently the government still have no idea what they want me to install or where to install it.

                              Most of our boilers are in hallways or in the loft, which are not living accommodation, so technically I don't need them?

                              I'm sure that as soon as I install anything, the idiots in charge will change the law again and deem what I have chosen is not acceptable.

                              Hard wired is ok for me in a new property or between tenants but I don't think existing tenants are OK with contractors knocking holes in the walls and ripping up carpets for mains wired alarms.

                              Gas boilers were ok last year but are now a health hazard. Yet another landlord tax? when is it going to end?

                              I think that I need to start passing some of this along in rent increases, which I have never done before and now is not a good time to do it.


                              Latest Activity


                              • Reply to PAT Failure - Gas hob
                                by nukecad
                                In general -

                                If it is plugged into a socket then it comes under PAT.
                                If it is hard wired in then it comes under EICR.

                                Think of a free standing electric cooker.
                                Lower powered ones, under 3kW, that have a plug are not part of the electrical installation, they don't...
                                13-08-2022, 09:35 AM
                              • PAT Failure - Gas hob
                                by MikeGreene
                                My agents have recently taken over carrying out PAT Tests for my properties - it is a Selective Licence scheme area, and PAT Tests are a requirement.
                                They have already found (unsurprisingly, given how many gunk up etc) two properties where the ignition button is not working and have failed the...
                                11-08-2022, 12:48 PM
                              • Reply to PAT Failure - Gas hob
                                by Firebug
                                It's not PAT it's the in service inspection and testing of electrical equipment and fixed equipment does come under it. The hobs would fail the functional test aspect of the procedure....
                                12-08-2022, 20:56 PM
                              • Reply to PAT Failure - Gas hob
                                by royw
                                I wouldn't expect a gas hob to need a PAT test either, it's a fixed item not a portable one. As long as it's passed the GSC I think that's all you need.
                                12-08-2022, 15:07 PM
                              • Elements of a proper gas safety check
                                by AndrewDod
                                Any gas competent people out there who can confirm exactly what a gas engineer should be doing as part of a boiler service and gas safety certificate.

                                Just had an incident where a (smallish) gas leak in a wall was found a few weeks after such a service. It was discovered by the energy...
                                18-07-2022, 11:43 AM
                              • Reply to Elements of a proper gas safety check
                                by gnvqsos

                                They should do a flue analysis to ensure the gas is fully combusted ,and measure efficiency of the boiler..
                                12-08-2022, 14:47 PM
                              • Reply to Elements of a proper gas safety check
                                by gnvqsos
                                A tightness test at the meter should precede any work on gas pipes and devices.. If no leaks before the work commences, any subsequent leak is attributable to that fitter .I would guess that meter installers are not trained to a hih standard and have not learnt first principles, as a Gas sake engineer...
                                12-08-2022, 14:45 PM
                              • Reply to Asbestos Survey Report
                                by Perce
                                Thank you All.

                                NSUK have now done an independent survey of the common parts for me very quickly.

                                The management company is now also doing the survey but I did not want to wait for their report.

                                I have asked the surveyor if it was a legal requirement...
                                12-08-2022, 11:33 AM
                              • Asbestos Survey Report
                                by Perce

                                I am selling a flat in a residential block of flats. My buyer's solicitor has requested an asbestos report saying the building was built before 2000 so it is a legal requirement to have it.

                                The building was built in 1998 and the Management Company did not do it. ...
                                10-08-2022, 14:44 PM
                              • Reply to PAT Failure - Gas hob
                                by nukecad
                                If you do disconnect it then I'd remove the igniter button from the hole and replace it with a plastic blanking plug.

                                That way it's obvious that there is no igniter and not simply a broken one.
                                12-08-2022, 11:10 AM