EICR needed but tenant refusing to allow work!!!

[HarryHHH]

Hi all,
I have a bit of a dilemma and was wondering what do next…

I have a rental property, 3 bed mid terrace under a shorthold assured tenancy.

I need to provide an Electrical Installation Condition Report (EICR). It is inevitable that this will mean that extensive remedial work needs to be carried out which will involve rewiring the property. A friend who is an electrician has told me as much.

The gov.uk website states the following:
“Where the report shows that remedial or further investigative work is necessary, complete this work within 28 days or any shorter period if specified as necessary in the report.”
My tenant is unwilling to move out of the property despite knowing this. He has 4 young children and a wife.

From 1 April 2021 the Electrical Safety Regulations will apply to my rental property. Exceptions are set out in Schedule 1 of the Regulations, but these do not apply to me.

If I need to carry out this work and the tenant is unwilling to move out. What can I do to remedy this situation?

I don’t think I can successfully evict the tenant considering the following:
“From 29 August 2020, a Section 21 notice must give tenants at least 6 months’ notice of the fact that the landlord requires possession.”

What can I do?.

H

[jpucng62]

You need to start with the EICR - your fears may be unfounded but equally your property may be unsafe.

Once you have identified what MUST be done, you will need to find a way to do this with the tenant in situ. It may be that you don't need a full rewire but if you do you tell your tenant that the property is unsafe, a risk to his young family and voids your insurance so the work has to be done.

Until you know exactly what needs to be done it is difficult to advise further but if you believe your property is electrically sub-standard you have to do it.

Given that until Health & Safety Laws you were obliged to ensure your property was safe long before the introduction on mandatory EICRs you perhaps should have addressed this problem sooner.

[Neelix]

Nobody can condemn a property without undertaking a full EICR and take into account the guidance that competent people have

a plastic fuseboard won’t mean a fail, so get a proper test done AND also download and read the Best Practice Guide No 4 produced by the electrical safety council

https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...149/bpg4-1.pdf

so back to the tenant , what does the letting agent advise?

I won’t do EICRs at the moment unless the tenants are out and as for remedial works ..... the 28 day rule in the legislation is flawed because there are many reasons why work can’t be completed within 28 days and ATM with Covid, nobody is going to successfully prosecute anybody for non compliance

Its worth nothing that there are far more properties to test, so the March 31st deadline for ALL rental properties to have a satisfactory report so this 10 month window was never achievable before the legislation was made law

Written communication and record keeping is your defence now

[baldelectrician]

Hi all,
I have a bit of a dilemma and was wondering what do next…

which will involve rewiring the property. A friend who is an electrician has told me as much.

To sum up

1. A professional electrician has told you the electrics may not be safe prior to this
2. You have not had any formal checks on the electrics (such as an EICR) so you do not really know how unsafe they are
3. You have a duty of care to ensure the electrics are safe for your tenant (this you clearly have not done)

What you need to do is have a check done and take it from there- you only have yourself to blame as you have left it till the last minute.

I really have no sympathy for landlords who leave themselves in this position through what is essentially neglect on their part, sorry to go blunt on this but this type of stuff really gets my goat- why have an asset worth tens or hundreds of thousands and not take care of it?

[HarryHHH]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I have spoken to my elderly father who has asked for my help. It is in fact his property. He has since informed me that an electrician has assessed the property and sent him the following via email.

"
It was really good speaking to you earlier while we inspected your property in which will need a full rewire as the property installation is in adequate for the following reasons below:


1. No protection on the property’s consumer unit in fails to comply with the IEE regulation

2. Not sufficient amount of sockets points for a 3 bedroom

3. Also none of the fittings in the property are fire proof which is ip 56

4. And no supplementary earth bonding within the property


So after the electrical installation report it is required that the property gets a full rewire in which will take 1-10 days to be completed and the tenants in which are in the property cannot stay in the property whilst work commences as we’re gonna need to lift floor board and so forth and it’s against health and safety as the property gonna be in dis repair in why they’re gonna have to find temporary accommodation for 1-10 days or else there gonna be at risk both while works going on and no protection on the consumer unit."

So it does in fact appear that the existing tenants will have to leave the property until the work is done.

I do appreciate that sometimes things can be prevented. But being a landlord is notoriously difficult especially when you are dealing with tenants in the middle of a pandemic. The government has also not given much time or flexibility on this matter.

[SimonH]

The OP is right to hold off getting the "formal" EICR done - once that is done then the 28 day clock starts ticking and options get restricted. I'm assuming his professional electrician friend has had an informal look and spotted issues that will need fixing - so he's already in a better place than many landlords in knowing that.
@ Neelix. Correct, a plastic CU should not mean a fail - it's either just a comment or at worst a C3, but it's clear from questions asked on other forums that a great many charlatans are using these new inspection rules as a way to make quick money at landlords' expense. I've seen a number of EICRs which are clearly works of fiction*, accompanied by excessive quotes for unspecified remedial works, and the threats about there only being 28 days to have the works done. By far the most common is to give a C2 for a plastic CU that's otherwise perfectly sound - and of course, to quote an inflated amount for it's replacement.
* With some, it's so blatant that you have to wonder how anyone can be so dishonest and be able to live with themselves. With others, it's (just about) possible to put it down to incompetence - incompetence of such a magnitude that they really shouldn't be doing anything to do with electrics !

[theartfullodger]

When did tenant 1st move in?

[HarryHHH]

The tenant moved in around 3 years ago

[Neelix]

Thanks for all the feedback.

I have spoken to my elderly father who has asked for my help. It is in fact his property. He has since informed me that an electrician has assessed the property and sent him the following via email.

"
It was really good speaking to you earlier while we inspected your property in which will need a full rewire as the property installation is in adequate for the following reasons below:


1. No protection on the property’s consumer unit in fails to comply with the IEE regulation

2. Not sufficient amount of sockets points for a 3 bedroom

3. Also none of the fittings in the property are fire proof which is ip 56

4. And no supplementary earth bonding within the property
.

That is NOT THE WAY to present the finding on an EICR - I hope your father hasn't paid for this garbage

The electrician needs to send the EICR (all 7 to 9 pages) confirming the inspection criteria and all the C1, C2, and C3 items listed with more information.

PS - the property isn't around Woking is it?

[Neelix]

SimonH,

Due to Christmas and now having to self isolate I have 4 EICR's over the 28 day period for remedial works - I don't care about the 28 days, the Landlords don't care and the lettings agents aren't chasing ..................

These properties will be improved as and when I can return and undertake the work.

[Neelix]

I really have no sympathy for landlords who leave themselves in this position through what is essentially neglect on their part, sorry to go blunt on this but this type of stuff really gets my goat- why have an asset worth tens or hundreds of thousands and not take care of it?

I think the last bit is a bit harsh.

Sounds to me that the OP is trying to do the right thing now

[HarryHHH]

That is NOT THE WAY to present the finding on an EICR - I hope your father hasn't paid for this garbage

The electrician needs to send the EICR (all 7 to 9 pages) confirming the inspection criteria and all the C1, C2, and C3 items listed with more information.

PS - the property isn't around Woking is it?

No, not around Woking. I don't consider this to be a formal report as such, it was a free evaluation.

[Neelix]

do not act on that email.

get a proper spark to do a proper EICR and read it when it’s presented to you

you are under no obligation to use the spark who did the EICR to do the remedials

FYI

A few months ago I reviewed an “email” report from a spark. He charged £70 + VAT then his remedial quote was £963 + VAT

i charged £155 for my proper EICR, then the C2 was £50 - the LL chose to act on the C3’s to and the total was around £200

[jpucng62]

. The government has also not given much time or flexibility on this matter.

The Govt gave plenty of notice IMHO. I've been doing EICRs for 20 years as part of understanding the safety of my properties - maybe not every 5 years, but when you hear stories like this you realise why the legislation has been brought in and now we all have to do them every 5 years.

LLs have always had a duty to ensure their property is safe and the only way to know that is to have an EICR - so to all those who have never had one until now I say how did you ensure your property was safe?

And when you have done your rentals may I suggest you get your own house done? Chances are you have problems at home too!

[darkstar]

Ditto jpucng62

There has always been a safety aspect for landlords to adhere to regarding fixed wiring. If LL's had paid more attention to this then there would not be the backlog of EICR and remedial's to do. Sadly, most leave it very late and this will only cause problems