NAPIT Guidance on New Electrical Certification requirements

Collapse
X
 
  • Filter
  • Time
  • Show
Clear All
new posts

    NAPIT Guidance on New Electrical Certification requirements

    Very clear guidance on the LLs responsibility under the new legislation - not sure how we get electricians in at the moment....

    https://www.napit.org.uk/downloads/E...5bboqsqaazcdcs

    #2
    Interesting.
    • It says "Any Electrical Inspector you employ to undertake the electrical inspection and testing within your property must have:
      • At least two years’ experience in carrying out periodic inspection and testing."
    How are those two years experience to be obtained if newcomers are not allowed to do periodic inspections and tests?
    • Are they offering to cover penalties imposed on LLs if their interpretation is found by a court to be incorrect (in particular their interpretation of "comply with 18th Edition")?

    Comment


      #3
      I've come to the conclusion that it will be simpler all round if I just get all properties upgraded to 2018 spec as far as possible, to avoid argument, and repeat attendances.

      Pricey, (£1k per flat) so far, but I honestly believe there is little option. Tax man will be hard up next year!

      Comment


        #4
        NAPIT seem to have an interesting interpretation of the law I wonder if the person who wrote this actually read the legislation?

        Comment


          #5
          I thought the guide useful and have been distributing it to private landlords in blocks my firm manages

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by JK0 View Post
            I've come to the conclusion that it will be simpler all round if I just get all properties upgraded to 2018 spec as far as possible, to avoid argument, and repeat attendances.

            Pricey, (£1k per flat) so far, but I honestly believe there is little option. Tax man will be hard up next year!
            Hello, could you break down what the £1K costs are. thanks in advance

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Diversity View Post

              Hello, could you break down what the £1K costs are. thanks in advance
              It's just the cost of a metal consumer unit, the things that go in it and the labour for replacing it.

              Comment


                #8
                MdeB,

                From my reading it does not need to comply with 18th regs, just the regs at the point the current equipment was fitted.

                There was a question and a clarification provided on the odpm website as far as I remember

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Diversity View Post

                  Hello, could you break down what the £1K costs are. thanks in advance
                  Here is the part - BS7671:2018 Requirements for Electrical Installations was issued on 31st July 2018 and is intended to come in to force on 1st January 2019. Installations installed after 31st December 2018 are to comply with BS7671:2018.

                  The Regulations apply to the design, erection and verification of electrical installations, also additions and alterations to existing installations. Existing installations that have been installed in accordance with earlier editions of the regulations may not comply with this edition in every respect. This does not necessarily mean that they are unsafe for continued use or require upgrading.”

                  So you may get a C3 or similar for not having a metal consumer unit but this won't fail the test

                  The trick I think will be making sure that any trade you employ understands the regs

                  Just my own personal view take advice before you act

                  All the best Stew.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by Stew View Post

                    From my reading it does not need to comply with 18th regs, just the regs at the point the current equipment was fitted.

                    There was a question and a clarification provided on the odpm website as far as I remember
                    Yes, but the issue is
                    • Will a court decide that the regulations say is what the government thinks they say?
                    It is very easy for organisations to give their view when it is not them that would be in court if a legal representative of a tenant thinks "comply with" means "is to the standard for new installations in".
                    I could see Shelter supporting such a case.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      So as far as I understand these are not new regulations and are an extension of the previous regulations being applied to HMO's (with some differences) , in that regard there must be plently of HMO's that were certified with C3's.

                      I think a judge would have to apply common sense as to the intent of the regulations and in my untrained view that would be that the installation was safe and compliant. If a court were to suggest an upgrade to 18th Regs was required this would make new case law in terms of building control also. So any construction carried out in rental properties years back that did not now comply with new thermal regs and such would also need to be upgraded. Applying regs retrospectively always seems impossible to implement.

                      I would consider it madness if 18th regs or one level of the regs were mandatory as next year or the year after a new set of regs might come out, would that mean that all the electrical certs were void and all the installations need to be updated...

                      Just my personal view

                      Comment


                        #12
                        I thought you guys might be interested to see the EICR I received today. You may notice the C2 listed for the consumer unit presumably because it isn't metal.docu0024.jpg

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                          I thought you guys might be interested to see the EICR I received today. You may notice the C2 listed for the consumer unit presumably because it isn't metal.docu0024.jpg
                          If that were me I'd be getting it clarified as in the very detailed safety first PDF it shows an old rewireable CU being fine except for it being mentioned that it was missing a fuse carrier (on the other thread)

                          The contractor may have failed yours because of unsafe connections in the board and maybe not the board itself.

                          If I look at the regs as they stand there is nothing that says it must comply with the current 18th regs.

                          I personally fear this whole lot is a minefield going forwards, it depends on the experience of your electrician and how they ineterpret the regs.

                          I think a lot of these things will be clarified soon as regs that are not regulated are pretty ineffective.....

                          is the ECGR passed yet by parliament, I thought it was up for review but not signed yet?

                          Just my personal view.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Just to add when I look at the guide posted by an electrician in the other thread it mentions

                            Circuits with ineffective overcurrent protection (due, for example, to oversized fuse wire in rewireable fuses)

                            Which adds to my belief that for example old CU's with rewireable fuses are still allowed and deemed safe (not a C1 or C2) otherwise the above makes no sense.

                            I would be raising questions with the government and with the certification body if I were yourself and speak to another contractor..

                            Looking at the guide an electrican posted - https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...-4-issue-4.pdf

                            pages 15/16 suggest older plastic CU or even one with rewireable fuses is C3,,,, C2 may be given if no supp bonding etc etc unless I've read it wrong, I only skimmed it.

                            Would be ineteresting to see a picture of your install CU etc if you have one

                            Just my personal view

                            All the best Stew.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Also if I look at page 17 in the guide it states as not even needing a notifiable code;

                              "Consumer units having rewireable fuses can continue to provide satisfactory service (Cover removed for illustrative purposes)"

                              Comment

                              Latest Activity

                              Collapse

                              • Electrical Work and EICR
                                by popotla
                                I own a small flat in the East Midlands (rented out) and am told by the management company that electrical work needs doing.

                                I was given an estimate and then asked for another. Between the two estimates, the costs, as regards four items, vary hugely. A new fan, for example would cost either...
                                13-06-2021, 17:55 PM
                              • Reply to Electrical Work and EICR
                                by Neelix
                                My advice to you is not to use the management companies sparks

                                a flat would be between £120 and £150 but remember that’s just to inspect and test, if you get C1 or C2 codes then remedial costs would be on top

                                as for your quotes - £100 for a fan replacement is probably...
                                13-06-2021, 19:47 PM
                              • Consumer unit
                                by billl
                                Hi I have an issue come up when I had a new kitchen fitted, the builder brought in an electrician to connect the kitchen wiring and he had the attached comments. And is asking for £180 for a condition report which includes Electrical inspection, Electrical testing and Full report with certificate ECR....
                                12-06-2021, 12:14 PM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by Neelix
                                Back to the op, £180 in London isn’t much for an EICR so before you give the go ahead to the spark ask him how long he will be in the property? If he says about 1 hour then don’t use him....
                                13-06-2021, 08:09 AM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by jpucng62
                                There is quite a lot of time / work involved in the EICR so I'm not surprised at the £180. He can't know the scope of the problem without doing this. What comes next will depend on what he finds. It sounds like you could be in for a large bill bill you need to get this sorted and what price safety?...
                                13-06-2021, 06:08 AM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by billl
                                Thank you both for your advice, I just went with what the management agent recommended builder. This is the second time and has not worked out well. I have asked the current electrician if he is a full scope Approved Contractor, Thanks

                                The electrician is insisting to have a condition...
                                12-06-2021, 22:10 PM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by baldelectrician
                                I agree- I get most of my work from word of mouth and existing customers....
                                12-06-2021, 21:02 PM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by baldelectrician
                                Use a fully approoved contractor.

                                Part P only is not fully time (apprenticeship) served usually

                                I would suggest a full scope Approved Contractor (either NICEIC or ECA)
                                12-06-2021, 21:01 PM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by Neelix
                                problem is there no guarantees with trades people , they claim all sorts of things BUT as somebody who gets nearly all their work by word of mouth recommendation, I would say this is the way you should go

                                remember some trade sites do not publish bad reviews , and as you can see from your...
                                12-06-2021, 19:40 PM
                              • Reply to Consumer unit
                                by billl
                                Thank you Baldelectrician, what check should I do before instructing a electrician?
                                12-06-2021, 19:13 PM
                              Working...
                              X