Good time to be an electrician

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    #16
    I spent good money upgrading the consumer units to the latest regulation. At the time the electricians put in plastic consumer units. Now we are being told that we need a metal consumer unit. There are some changes to the requirements for RCDs.

    Why did n'the IEEE come up with metal consumer units the first time? Someone should sue to the IEEE, as to me it seems this is money making for electricians and the electrical industry.

    As the consumer unit sizes are different. Some of the existing wiring might be short. So they would have to put a joint-which is never a good idea.




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      #17
      Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
      I spent good money upgrading the consumer units to the latest regulation. At the time the electricians put in plastic consumer units. Now we are being told that we need a metal consumer unit. There are some changes to the requirements for RCDs.

      Why did n'the IEEE come up with metal consumer units the first time? Someone should sue to the IEEE, as to me it seems this is money making for electricians and the electrical industry.

      As the consumer unit sizes are different. Some of the existing wiring might be short. So they would have to put a joint-which is never a good idea.



      Ah, you've caught on. It's called 'Regulatory Capture'.

      Investopedia:
      Regulatory capture is an economic theory that says regulatory agencies may come to be dominated by the industries or interests they are charged with regulating. The result is that an agency, charged with acting in the public interest, instead acts in ways that benefit the industry it is supposed to be regulating.
      The whole nonsense beggars belief.

      Can you imagine telling every tenant you have, that his house wiring needs renovating between now and April next year?

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        #18
        FTA: The tax man is going to be hard up next year, isn't he? I have 14 properties to update the wiring in!

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          #19
          Are you sure it is not just an April Fools joke?

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            #20
            Originally posted by Flashback1966 View Post
            Why did n'the IEEE come up with metal consumer units the first time?
            Apparently it was in response to the number of fires reported by fire brigades that started in consumer units.

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              #21
              Whilst it is true that about 30% of house fires are caused by electrical issues, the vast majority of those are caused by things beyond the plugs -- in other words what the householder does. Since the landlord is placing a £500K asset in the hands of these folk and bears responsibility for their lives, landlord would seem to have far more interest in the tenant's electrical checks on their appliances and the manner in which they use electricity.

              Some of them are caused by well known appliance faults, a matter on which regulators have been dragging their feet.

              But hey, some things (and some deaths) matter and other's don't. And the environmental impact of replacing stuff (for other stuff which is undoubtedly better) is not insignificant either - so do we want fires in Australia or in Pontefract?

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                #22
                Originally posted by Berlingogirl View Post
                An inspection is needed for every new tenancy. Or have I read it wrong? This might mean a void between the old tenancy and the new.

                c)ensure the first inspection and testing is carried out—

                (i)before the tenancy commences in relation to a new specified tenancy; or

                (ii)by 1st April 2021 in relation to an existing specified tenancy.
                What if an initial fixed term goes statutory periodic on, say, 2nd July 2020? Is this deemed a new specified tenancy with the result that testing needs to be done before that date?

                And does it make any difference if, in my example above, the last test was done 3 years ago (ie deemed safe in 2017 with a recommended next test of 2022). Do the new regulations override the old recommendation, so that a new test has to be done two years "early"?

                Thank you.

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                  #23
                  It's like a gas safety certificate (but one that lasts 5 years).
                  So you have to have one before a new tenancy that starts on 1st July this year (well technically not yet, because it's not yet law, but it will be) and then for every tenancy by next April.
                  But then any new tenancy thereafter is covered by the existing inspection until the certification expires and you get a new one done.

                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                    #24
                    Do the regulations actually require that the electrics be brought up to the standard for new installations, or does the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations only require that such changes be made when other changes are made to the installation?

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                      #25
                      Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                      Do the regulations actually require that the electrics be brought up to the standard for new installations, or does the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations only require that such changes be made when other changes are made to the installation?
                      I don't know for sure, I didn't fancy spending £274.00 on a document that I don't expect to understand.

                      But normally British Standards state the rules and what's being tested either complies or it doesn't.
                      The legislation says when the test has to be done.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                        #26
                        I shall write to my MP asking him to seek clarification in the regulations before they are approved.

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                          #27
                          It will be interesting to see exactly what form these tests take in relation to the regulations, how for instance are they going to check that all cables are fixed with metal fixings? Also work has to be carried out within 28 days of the inspection if it highlights issues, which means the electrician has you over a barrel.

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                            Do the regulations actually require that the electrics be brought up to the standard for new installations, or does the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations only require that such changes be made when other changes are made to the installation?
                            I had this nonsense when I applied for an HMO licence some years ago. The only spec available for the electrician to test to is the present edition. Thus there were a lot of nitpicky items like earth leads too thin, (which were perfectly adequate up to 1998.)

                            The guy was unwilling to only rectify the items required for a 1998 installation, and wanted £600 if I remember rightly to bring it up to the present standard. Nevertheless I sent the report to the council. As you may guess, the jobsworths wanted everything on the list done. I'm sure it will be the same with these new regulations.

                            If you click on the EICR download here, https://electrical.theiet.org/bs-7671/model-forms/ you can see the sort of leading questions that the electrician has to answer. I think question 4.4 (Condition of enclosure in terms of fire rating) would be hard to tick anything other than 'Improvement Recommended' wouldn't it?

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                              Do the regulations actually require that the electrics be brought up to the standard for new installations, or does the eighteenth edition of the Wiring Regulations only require that such changes be made when other changes are made to the installation?
                              In a word -NO

                              The EICR tests compliance against the previous regulations with the current ones

                              An example
                              Did an EICR on a flat just before Christmas, there was no RCD protection at all

                              There was NOT an electric shower but there was lights and metal pipe work in the bathroom, the previous regulations required supplementary equipotential bonding in bathrooms (this was not present and was verified by measurement)
                              This EICR failed on the lack of supplementary bonding or RCD protection.
                              There were other issues where the install failed but I will not go in to this here.

                              See Guide on completing EICR's
                              https://www.electricalsafetyfirst.or...149/bpg4-1.pdf


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                                #30

                                Its worth pointing out; just because a property doesn't meet current regulations it isn't necessarily unsafe, it simply doesn't meet current regulations.
                                There is no law that says every property must meet current standards, otherwise we would forever be falling over Electricians in our houses carrying out upgrade works.
                                Any competent sparky is going to categorise "faults" based on risk and danger. The majority will fall under C3 ;

                                Code 3 is described as 'Improvement recommended.'

                                This means something has been identified which does not comply with the latest regulations but isn't actually dangerous. For example, the installation may not comply with the current version of the regulations or may have damaged fittings which do not have exposed live parts. A code C3, in itself, should not warrant an overall unsatisfactory report.

                                A good example of a C3 would be a consumer unit that is not metal. (or should be classed as C3 - anything else and you're being ripped off)

                                Anything C1 is DANGEROUS and needs immediate attention. This likely existed before the Regs were changed and routine testing and your visual inspection should have picked it up (you've been doing your routine testing and visual inspections, right?).
                                A Code 1 (C1) observation means ' Danger present. Risk of injury. Immediate remedial action required.'


                                A C1 represents an immediate threat to the safety of your employees, customers or guests and should be rectified or made safe as soon as possible.

                                An example of a C1 defect would be accessible live conductors due to damage, poorly modified enclosures or removed maintenance panels. Incorrect polarity would also attract a code C1 as it may allow conductive parts, not normally expected to be live, to become live.

                                A Code 2 (C2) is not as severe as a C1, but is still a potentially dangerous defect. They may not pose an immediate threat but are likely to become a danger in the future. A C2 is described as 'Potentially dangerous - urgent remedial action required.'

                                The phrase "potentially dangerous", in the C2 code is designed to point towards a risk of injury from contact with live parts after a sequence of events. A sequence of events could mean that an individual may gain access to live parts through a day to day task that would not usually be expected to give access to live parts

                                So, no need to panic, the only change should be you have to pay an extra £100 or so every 5 years.
                                But, as previously brought up you should be doing this anyway.....

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