Landlord claims that rent is in arrears; how to prove it's not?

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  • Landlord claims that rent is in arrears; how to prove it's not?

    Good morning,

    Firstly, sorry if I've posted this to the wrong board.

    My partner is an assured tenant and has rented the same property for the last 16 years, he's always had a good relationship with his landlord.
    November 07 the landlord emailed asking could he come over for "a general chat" and to see how the house is - the landlord by the way lives in Hong Kong and dosen't come over very often. During his visit he told my partner that "he didn't think" he'd been receiving all of his rent since April 07 (approx half), at the time the council had been paying all but £75 a month which my partner has a DD setup to pay the landlord the difference, so that was being paid no problem.
    My partner has asked the council to provide a statement listing everything that has been paid to the landlord, so far though they haven't sent anything back. Two weeks after the landlord's visit he emailed my partner with a breakdown of what has been paid to him, a couple of months entries he couldn't verify as "he couldn't find his statements"
    Two weeks later 13/12/07 my partner received a Section 8 detailing arrears as far back as 2004 - shocked by this as he did not know the arrears went back this far, we felt we had to comply with the section 8 before the 8/01/08 which we did all arrears paid in full and 2 months in advance so he wouldn't be in the same postition again.
    Last week 05/01/08 my partner receives a court summons of repossesion for breaches in clauses 8,10 and 11 I think this is correct certainly clauses 8 and 11 were mentioned, we are now at our wits end! my partner has an appointment today with the CAB to establish our rights.
    I think this is so unfare considering that he didn't even know he was in arrears as the landlord had not said anything for almost 3 years!. My partner has emailed him a couple of times but he does not respond.
    Any additional advise/rights on where he stands, would be appreciated.

    Sorry for the long winded post.

  • #2
    1. Liability for rent rests on T, even if Council pay part.
    2. Grounds [not "clauses"] 8/10/11, in Schedule 2 to Housing Act 1988, need to be proved by L. He has to show non-payment; otherwise, it is not for T to show payment.
    3. If T cleared all arrears, only g11 (persistent late payment) would survive- and it is only a discretionary ground anyway.
    4. Gather together all T's evidence re rent demands and payments, to evidence (if necessary) that everything payable was indeed paid.
    5. Don't panic.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


    • #3
      Hi Jeffrey,

      Thank you for your advise and taking the time to reply.

      H

      Comment


      • #4
        Consider also that the LL may well be 'trying it on' to evict an assured tenant and sell the property.

        Comment


        • #5
          As long as you are no longer in arrears and defend any court procedure I'm sure you will be ok as judges will always be fairer to tenants than landlords.

          Keep us posted.
          All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

          * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

          You can search the forums here:

          Comment


          • #6
            Originally posted by Bel View Post
            As long as you are no longer in arrears and defend any court procedure I'm sure you will be ok as judges will always be fairer to tenants than landlords.

            Keep us posted.
            Hi Bel,

            Many thanks for assurance - the last couple of months have been hell.

            The court hearing on 10th March so I'll keep you posted.

            Thank you again.

            N

            Comment


            • #7
              The judge is unlikely in the extreme to give a possession order on discretionary grounds, especially an assured tenant.

              I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. Make sure the judge knows the tenancy is an assured one.

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by attilathelandlord View Post
                The judge is unlikely in the extreme to give a possession order on discretionary grounds, especially an assured tenant.

                I wouldn't worry too much if I were you. Make sure the judge knows the tenancy is an assured one.
                Not so fast, my fine friend.

                "Assured tenancy" is merely a generic phrase. It means, for present purposes, ANY tenancy to which the 1988 Act applies.

                BUT
                Does this case involve:
                a. an Assured Shorthold Tenancy; or
                b. a Standard Assured Tenancy?

                We don't know that yet.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                  Not so fast, my fine friend.

                  "Assured tenancy" is merely a generic phrase. It means, for present purposes, ANY tenancy to which the 1988 Act applies.

                  BUT
                  Does this case involve:
                  a. an Assured Shorthold Tenancy; or
                  b. a Standard Assured Tenancy?

                  We don't know that yet.
                  Hi Jeffrey,

                  It is an Assured tenancy - my partner moved in in 1992 but took it over from his late partner who moved in in 1985

                  There is no formal tenancy agreement in place the claim for posession states that it is an 'oral assured tenancy'.

                  Hope this helps,

                  Thank you again for all help and advice given.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by nembarie View Post
                    Hi Jeffrey,

                    It is an Assured tenancy - my partner moved in in 1992 but took it over from his late partner who moved in in 1985

                    Hope this helps,

                    Thank you again for all help and advice given.
                    ...in which case 1988 Act does not apply at all. The tenancy must be governed by Rent Act 1977, possibly with Housing Act 1980.
                    Ites 2 and 3 in my first post would generally still be true but with different cross-references.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                      ...in which case 1988 Act does not apply at all. The tenancy must be governed by Rent Act 1977, possibly with Housing Act 1980.
                      Ites 2 and 3 in my first post would generally still be true but with different cross-references.
                      Hi Jeffrey,

                      I added this bit in after I posted.

                      "There is no formal tenancy agreement in place the claim for posession states that it is an 'oral assured tenancy'. "

                      I'm not that up on the law so I don't know if this makes a difference.....

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Not sure yet. I don't know if 1977/1980 Assured Tenancies can be created orally. More follows.
                        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by nembarie View Post
                          Hi Jeffrey,

                          It is an Assured tenancy - my partner moved in in 1992 but took it over from his late partner who moved in in 1985

                          There is no formal tenancy agreement in place the claim for posession states that it is an 'oral assured tenancy'.

                          Hope this helps,

                          Thank you again for all help and advice given.


                          Surely it depends on whether the tency started in 1985 and was assigned, or a completely new tenancy began 1992. This will depend on circumstances if there was no paperwork, perhaps

                          Try the tenancy checker here:

                          http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-6988.cfm
                          All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

                          * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

                          You can search the forums here:

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Bel View Post
                            Surely it depends on whether the tency started in 1985 and was assigned, or a completely new tenancy began 1992. This will depend on circumstances if there was no paperwork, perhaps

                            Try the tenancy checker here:

                            http://england.shelter.org.uk/advice/advice-6988.cfm
                            "...took it over" sounds like an informal arrangement, not new tenancy.
                            JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                            1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                            2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                            3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                            4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              We discussed with our judge only this morning that we had no evidence of creation of Rent Act 77 protected tenancy, so assumed it had been created informally i.e. orally. Does this help?
                              The contents of this note are neither advice nor a definitive answer. If you plan to rely on this, you should pay somebody for proper advice.

                              Comment

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