Protected tenant

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  • Protected tenant

    Hi all

    I have a query that I can't find any advice for, thought it would be worth throwing it out to the experts in the field (I'm a newbie landlord). I've just purchased a house with a stipulation to observe a protected tenancy, who will be staying in the property. He moved in pre-1988 under an assured tenancy (not AST). He doesn't have a copy of the tenancy for me to take over, so what tenancy agreement should I put in place - will an AST do, or should I attempt to source an assured tenancy agreement (if they even exist any more)?

    Thanks in advance for any advice.
    Chris

  • #2
    I'm no expert on early tenanaies but i would try and get them to sign another one. AST this time, at least you would know where you stand with it.

    Comment


    • #3
      The way I understand it is that you cannot force someone to sign a new agreement, especially if they are an Assured Tenant. Anyone who has an assured tenancy should take legal advise before signing an AST as you will lose many rights.

      OP you need to issue the tenant with a section 20 I think it is which tells the tenant who the new Landlord is and where to make payments to. Issuing an AST will reduce their rights and COULD be problems if you try to evict and the tenant mentions when they moved in.

      Jeffrey is a better source of help and he will be around later! .. or you could do a search and hopefully you will come up with more info. xx good luck
      GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

      Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

      Comment


      • #4
        You don't have to sign a new agreement, just let the old one stand.

        You will not be able to give them an AST. If you attempt to do that you will have to prove they had proper legal counselling from a qualified solicitor outlining exactly what they are losing. And let's face it, what solicitor would allow their client to do such a thing.

        You will have an assured tenant no matter what you do, even if you decide to try and get them to sign an AST without advice. If you then tried to go to court the forms ask whether the AST followed an assured tenancy and guess what the judge will say when he/she discovers the answer is yes!

        It's a S48 notice to advise of landlord's details. A letter will suffice.
        Last edited by attilathelandlord; 06-02-2008, 06:57 AM. Reason: to add point

        Comment


        • #5
          The Housing Act 1980 created:
          a. protected shorthold tenancies (an early prototype of the 1988 Act versions (AST and SAT), grafted on to the Rent Act 1977 scheme); and
          b. assured tenancies (only for new houses (or houses on which substantial qualifying works were carried out within previous two years) but assured could be granted only by an Approved Body).

          So which type is yours?
          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

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          • #6
            As said before, the original agreement stands; you must notify tenant of new LL details before any rent becomes due.
            All posts in good faith, but do not rely on them

            * * * * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * *

            You can search the forums here:

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            • #7
              Originally posted by Bel View Post
              As said before, the original agreement stands; you must notify tenant of new LL details before any rent becomes due.
              Yes. Notices are under:
              a. section 3 of LTA 1985; and
              b. section 48 of LTA 1987;
              and should be served on T at same time as outgoing L's Letter of Authority re future rent payment.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Christopher View Post
                I've just purchased a house with a stipulation to observe a protected tenancy, who will be staying in the property. He moved in pre-1988 under an assured tenancy (not AST).
                T cannot be an assured tenant, unless the pre-1988 letting was by an approved body, but could be a protected tenant. See my previous post.
                JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                Comment


                • #9
                  Out of interest there is a Statutory Instrument for changing an Assured Tenant to An Assured Shorthold Tenant. It's SI 1997 No 194 Form Number 8. I've given them to several Assured Tenants in the past and they've returned them signed. I've not actually had to call upon one in court yet though, and I suspect i might have some problems if i did, as it's a bit of a grey area!

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Originally posted by jghomer View Post
                    Out of interest there is a Statutory Instrument for changing an Assured Tenant to An Assured Shorthold Tenant. It's SI 1997 No 194 Form Number 8. I've given them to several Assured Tenants in the past and they've returned them signed. I've not actually had to call upon one in court yet though, and I suspect i might have some problems if i did, as it's a bit of a grey area!
                    1. Is that only for 1988 Act cases, though?
                    2. AST gives more rights to T, of course, so I doubt that T would complain.
                    3. One cannot easily do the reverse (make AST into SAT) as it significantly reduces T's rights.
                    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Oops, didn't spot the pre 88 bit in his post.

                      Still a useful titbit i thought, if they actually work! :-)

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        THanks to all for these useful suggestions so far. Jeffrey, neither the tenant nor the previous landlord has a copy of the previous agreement so I can't ascertain what type of tenancy it was. The only reference is from the seller's solicitors which stipulated that the sale is subject to the existing protected tenancy.

                        If my route forward is dependent on the type of tenancy I'm left in the dark a bit!

                        Oh, and congrats on your 5,000th post. I have some catching up to do!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          The problem is that the type of tenancy is crucial and determinative of the legal position.
                          To state that it's "protected" means either:
                          a. accurately, protected under 1980 Act's detailed provisions as explained in my previous posts; or
                          b. colloquially, that T is protected by an (unspecified) statutory provision- but which one?
                          If it helps, I doubt that it's a 1980 Act Assured Tenancy.

                          Careless words cost time (and effort)!
                          JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                          1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                          2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                          3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                          4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            My strong suspicion is that it's the latter. The tenant was a close friend of the LL when he moved in in 1987. The LL's son took over running his father's properties on his death soon afterwards. So there are two instances where the correct agreement may not have been put in place: firstly, when the tenant moved in (possibly an informal agreement between friends), and/or secondly, when the LL's son took over. I know many of his other more recent tenants who say that their AST paperwork wasn't renewed even if they continued living in his properties long after after the initial 6-month term.

                            It seems that we're inheriting a messy situation that will be difficult to remedy satisfactorily. Nonetheless, we want the tenant to continue living in the property and feel that he's secure where he is.

                            Comment

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