Mice??

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    Mice??

    House in the country with access to the footings. Not a cellar, just a crawl space. Signs of mice (droppings) in this crawl space. Who is responsible, landlord or tenant?

    #2
    As i understand it the LL has a responsibility to ensure that every effort is made to deter rodents and pests, i.e. block access holes, ensure that sewer pipes are in good repair. If this work has been done but there is a problem, the tenant needs to sort themselves with the possible help of the council. From a moralistic point of view, however, I as a LL would want to get the problem sorted!

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      #3
      House in the country? Mice? hardly suprising is it?

      We had a case where tenants moved into 250yr old rural property, mice visited on a regular basis 1-2 times a month. Tenants created about it although landlord had done everything he could to keep mice out; traps, poison, regular vists by pest control etc. Tenant eventually walked out and stopped paying rent on grounds of mice. I advised the landlord to take tenant to court.
      Landlord won!
      Judge agreed that although the landlord had failed to keep the mice out of the property it was entirely reasonable that the tenant should have expected to see mice and a lot of other wildlife besides in a 250yr old house in the middle of open fields and farmland
      My advice is not based on formal legal training but experience gained in 20+ years in the letting industry.

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        #4
        Comes under the tenancy condition that the tenant shall not keep pets!!!!!!!

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          #5
          ROFL DJB!

          The tenant is responsible. The landlord is responsible however for ensuring the property is structurally sound(ie no holes etc) which would allow such animals in. If there are no holes in walls or similar, then the tenant is responsible.
          Any posts by myself are my opinion ONLY. They should never be taken as correct or factual without confirmation from a legal professional. All information is given without prejudice or liability.

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            #6
            I have rats in my own residence. They've worked out how to avoid getting snapped in the traps, and happily eat all the poison I put down for them, I think they regard it as an appetiser, as they eat their way through my kitchen.

            Can't I make my tenants responsible?

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              #7
              Sounds like a job for a professional. Have you tried sitting quietly with a .22? It works for squirrels.

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                #8
                Love it, roflol !!!

                Originally posted by davidjohnbutton
                Comes under the tenancy condition that the tenant shall not keep pets!!!!!!!
                Any information or opinion given in this post is based only on my personal experience, what I have learned from this, other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person. E&OE

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                  #9
                  best option, try this

                  charge the tenant the full wack for your time and effort for trying very hard in getting ride of mice, it works for me--infact i have made a nice sum out of it, its called an admin fee.

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                    #10
                    Originally posted by nask70
                    charge the tenant the full wack for your time and effort for trying very hard in getting ride of mice, it works for me--infact i have made a nice sum out of it, its called an admin fee.
                    Unfortunatly under HHSRS pest's are one of the 29 prescribed hazards so it is not the responsability of the tenant but the landlord.
                    Disclaimer:I have over 30 years experience in housing(both social and private) as an EHO and Building Surveyor.I am also a certified expert witness having spent the last 15years working in housing litigation.The advice I give is from experience in working for various Local Authorities and how the law is interpretated.Housing Law is a minefield and is continually being amended if in any doubt you should consult a solicitor or someone of equal legal standing.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      @ pms Are you stating the law stipulates that if a tenant with unauthorised pets caused the property to be infested by animal fleas then the landlord would have to bear the cost of treatment?

                      I can understand the landlord having the responsibility for ensuring the flat was free of infestation on hand over to a new tenant but it would seem commonsense that a landlord should be entitled to charge where an infestation arises directly from the actions of a tenant.
                      Vic - wicked landlord
                      Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
                      Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Worldlife
                        @ pms Are you stating the law stipulates that if a tenant with unauthorised pets caused the property to be infested by animal fleas then the landlord would have to bear the cost of treatment?

                        I can understand the landlord having the responsibility for ensuring the flat was free of infestation on hand over to a new tenant but it would seem commonsense that a landlord should be entitled to charge where an infestation arises directly from the actions of a tenant.


                        Domestic hygiene, pests and refuse
                        15. —(1) Poor design, layout or construction such that the dwelling or HMO cannot readily be kept clean.

                        (2) Exposure to pests.

                        (3) An inadequate provision for the hygienic storage and disposal of household waste.

                        I don't disagree with what your saying and yes I do think that you should be able to charge the tenant.My only concern is that the difinition of pest can mean anything. It is not very well defind in HHSRS
                        Disclaimer:I have over 30 years experience in housing(both social and private) as an EHO and Building Surveyor.I am also a certified expert witness having spent the last 15years working in housing litigation.The advice I give is from experience in working for various Local Authorities and how the law is interpretated.Housing Law is a minefield and is continually being amended if in any doubt you should consult a solicitor or someone of equal legal standing.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          @pms If I recall correctly there was a definition of "pest" within the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act. Wonder if you might have easy access to provide a quote!
                          Vic - wicked landlord
                          Any advice or suggestions given in my posts are intended for guidance only and not a substitute for completing full searches on this forum, having regard to the advice of others, or seeking appropriate professional opinion.
                          Without Plain English Codes of Practice and easy to complete Prescribed Forms the current law is too complex and is thus neither fair to good tenants nor good landlords.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Non violent meditation....

                            ...not really (at least UK) mainstream thought, but I was able to somehow transcend to a reality whereby the mice no longer harrassed my space...which was a caravan on a mind blowing beautiful hillside on Anglesey Literally it became like some concious intellegence thing!..not the mice per say...an auspicious reality achived through non violent meditation...theres so much aggression in western society/reality that this can be very difficult to achive.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by Worldlife
                              @pms If I recall correctly there was a definition of "pest" within the Prevention of Damage by Pests Act. Wonder if you might have easy access to provide a quote!
                              Part of that particular act was repealed in 2004.Its a 1949 Act which was an extension of the 1936 Public Health Act which became the 1990 EPA.Im going to look into this a little bit more because many LA's on their websites are defining the following as pest's Bed Bugs,cockroaches,flea's mice,rats,squirrels,pigeon's,bluebottles,maggots etc.It's important to ascertain what the landlord is responsible for as HHSRS clearly say's pests but what pests.
                              Disclaimer:I have over 30 years experience in housing(both social and private) as an EHO and Building Surveyor.I am also a certified expert witness having spent the last 15years working in housing litigation.The advice I give is from experience in working for various Local Authorities and how the law is interpretated.Housing Law is a minefield and is continually being amended if in any doubt you should consult a solicitor or someone of equal legal standing.

                              Comment

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