Is this a HMO?

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    Is this a HMO?

    I have a 2 bed to rent and have had a tenant call who would like to view. Its him and his partner plus his sister. As they are related (brother and sister) does it avoid being a hmo even though 3 people?
    Thank you.

    #2
    I think you're clear regarding HMO's.

    However, you might want to enquire if sister is married and intending on bringing husband (from abroad maybe?)

    This might be an attempt to get round 'Right to Rent' enquiries.

    Comment


      #3
      JK0,

      If the sister brought in a partner (however you interpret that word), then I believe it would make 2 households and so become a HMO.
      So make it very clear in the agreement that no other adults are permitted under the agreement.

      Comment


        #4
        If the local council doesn't run an HMO licensing scheme, it shouldn't matter whether it's an HMO or not? If anything, the more working people in the house, the more likely they are going to pay the rent, wear and tear aside.

        Comment


          #5
          It matter because most of the regulations relating to HMOs apply regardless of licensing.
          Including (but not limited to):

          To provide all occupiers with the manager's name, address and telephone number, this information must be clearly displayed within in the property
          To ensure that all fire escapes are clear of any obstacles and that they are kept in good order, to ensure that all fire safety measures are maintained in good working order and that adequate fire safety measures are in place with regards to the design, structural conditions and number of occupiers in the HMO
          The manager must maintain adequate water supply and drainage to the dwelling
          The manager must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted
          The manager must ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested by a suitably qualified person, at intervals not exceeding five years
          The manager must provide the electrical and gas inspection certificates within seven days of receiving a request of writing from the local housing authority
          To ensure that all common parts of the HMO are maintained in good decorative order, and safe and working condition. This includes out-buildings, boundaries and gardens
          The manager must ensure each unit of living accommodation and its contents are clean before occupiers move in and are maintained in good repair and clean working order throughout the occupation by the tenant
          The manager must provide adequate facilities to dispose of all waste produced by the property

          Some of these are more onerous than they appear - the "fire safety measures" one probably involves talking to your local fire brigade or another specialist and doing what they suggest (which will probably involve a higher than "normal" standard of doors, heat sensitive fire alarms in kitchen(s) and proper fire escapes).

          There are also planning implications for an HMO as it is a distinct "type" of property.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Aren't you confusing this HMO here with a "large HMO" that requires what you stated above?

            If you live in a large HMO, your landlord must meet certain standards and obligations.
            https://www.gov.uk/private-renting/h...ple-occupation


            Your home is a large HMO if all of the following apply:

            it’s at least 3 storeys high
            at least 5 tenants live there, forming more than 1 household
            you share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities with other tenants

            Comment


              #7
              Nope, the HMO regulations apply to all HMO's.
              Large HMOs have additional licensing regulations.

              This misapprehension causes no end of confusion.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #8
                Well, I'm thoroughly confused then. Can't find any official resources (gov & Shelter) on these requirements for non-large HMOs...

                Comment


                  #9
                  This is as good a source as any.
                  https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...occupation_hmo
                  It takes you through the HMO regulations and then moves on to the licensing aspect.

                  Don't worry, it's as though every local authority and central government is focussed on licensing requirements and none on non-licensed HMOs - of which there must be a lot.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Are you sure Shelter aren't making that up, JPK?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      That's the link I read and many from your list are missing on Shelter (e.g. must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted) though in both cases, the requirements are very much common sense like this e.g. and some are already legal requirements: fire alarms and gas certificates.


                      I was renting many years ago when a student and I was sharing a house with others. I fear all these HMO regs achieve is to scare away landlords, thus cutting down on supply, or those LL left increase the rent due to all this complication. Either way it's the tenants who end up paying - those who rent a room only are usually the poorest because they can't afford a house or a one-bed flat. I know I couldn't and at that time I was pleased with the abundance of rooms I could rent with all bills included. It certainly helped with budgeting.

                      To those that say this legislation helps stamp out rogue landlords, I say BS. If tenants are not happy with the house, fire alarms, LL, etc, they can just move out. When renting a room only, it's certainly easier than a whole house move. Been there, done that.

                      All I can conclude is that the landlords' lobby groups are pretty weak to allow all these harsh anti-landlords laws to be passed one after the other. And it's extremely short-sighted to think they will affect LL only.

                      I'm glad I don't have to rent anymore in this new climate.

                      Rant over.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                        Are you sure Shelter aren't making that up, JPK?
                        Have a look at http://www.landlordlawblog.co.uk/201...joint-tenants/, then follow the link under heading What are the HMO Management Regulations?

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                          Are you sure Shelter aren't making that up, JPK?
                          Pretty sure - the legislation is all over the place, and getting back to basics isn't easy.

                          But it makes sense - a 2 storey building with 5 people in it is as likely to burn down as a 3 storey building with 5 people in it.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by kelbol View Post
                            .....To those that say this legislation helps stamp out rogue landlords, I say BS. If tenants are not happy with the house, fire alarms, LL, etc, they can just move out. When renting a room only, it's certainly easier than a whole house move. Been there, done that.....
                            HMO legislation came in first, initially in Scotland, after a particularly gruesome fire at a student letting...
                            http://www.gov.scot/Publications/2002/09/15512/11545
                            3.18 Considerable work had gone into developing the framework for the scheme when the death occurred in Glasgow of two students from a fire in a 3 person basement flat with bars across its windows and smoke detectors that did not work.
                            Of course such legislation doesn't stamp out the rogues, but it certainly helps do so: A bit. Along with various other bits of legislation required when, sadly, not enough landlords had done the right think often enough.

                            There are of course bad tenants also, bad MPs also etc etc
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment

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