Ending joint tenancy

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    Ending joint tenancy

    Posting for a friend so bear with me if I don't provide all necessary details.
    Property in UK, AST now on rolling periodic.

    2 bed flat let to a couple and a single. Single came in as replacement via tenancy swop through agency . (tenant find only, not managed)

    Single tenant ( apparently a difficult character) has given written notice to agent which of course ends tenancy for the couple too. They cannot afford the total rent on their own so are also planning to move out but the remaining 3 week notice period is not long enough for them to find new place etc.
    Landlord would like to allow them extra time to do this, agency have instructed that a section 21 should be served.
    I have filled landlord in on which documents need to be provided before 21 would be valid and she is today double checking that deposit has been properly handled.

    Questions.....
    1. is landlord effectively creating a new tenancy if she allows the couple to stay on for a few more weeks while they find new accommodation? How else can LL accommodate these 'good' tenants
    2. Presumably outgoing single has no further liability for rent after his notice expires and he leaves?

    #2
    The answer depends on how the "replacement" happened, as that's not a standard process (although very common for London agents).
    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

    Comment


      #3
      Originally posted by charliesugar View Post
      Questions.....
      1. is landlord effectively creating a new tenancy if she allows the couple to stay on for a few more weeks while they find new accommodation? How else can LL accommodate these 'good' tenants
      2. Presumably outgoing single has no further liability for rent after his notice expires and he leaves?
      Assuming that the notice was valid (i.e complies with the terms of the tenancy and the law, and jpkeates' comment above has no bearing), then

      1. If the landlord takes rent, then that creates a new tenancy.
      2. Yes, outgoing tenant has no further liability.

      There are a couple of ways that I can see that the couple could stay for longer without significant repercussions (provided that both landlord and tenant are decent people and will not rely on their legal rights to screw the other party):

      A. The landlord could write to them stating that if they remain, then the landlord will not accept rent from them; any payment will be treated as mesne profit, and the landlord may take legal action at tenant's expense to regain possession. If the landlord undertakes not to start proceedings for a few weeks, this may work.

      B. Give a new agreement that allows the tenant to terminate with short notice.



      As the tenancy will end at the end of the notice period, I'm not sure if a S21 notice will have any effect. There may be a different legal procedure needed to regain possession in this case; hopefully more-knowledgeable posters can advise.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks MdeB, very useful information.
        I have asked LL why the couple don't want to get a new replacement tenant themselves and stay where they are as supposedly they don't really want to leave the flat at all. (interesting point....they are both Junior doctors and cannot afford the rent on their own)
        LL herself is indeed decent and does also believe that tenants are....but I have warned her against trusting that instinct too far as you just never know! so...if they created a new agreement, which would be at a lower rent....then the tenants could possibly refuse to give notice and force LL to seek possession.

        Comment


          #5
          Ending a tenancy at any point is only ever a problem if one of the people involved don't want the same result as any of the others.
          If everyone agrees to something, all is well.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by charliesugar View Post
            .if they created a new agreement, which would be at a lower rent.
            I would not recommend a lower rent. landlord should not be out of pocket due to actions/wishes of the tenant.

            Comment


              #7
              Junior doctors tend to 'rotate' around 1st Aug, so opportunity for replacement Ts or new AST

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by charliesugar View Post
                LL herself is indeed decent and does also believe that tenants are....but I have warned her against trusting that instinct too far as you just never know! so...if they created a new agreement, which would be at a lower rent....then the tenants could possibly refuse to give notice and force LL to seek possession.
                Voice of experience - not all doctors are to be trusted. Issue section 21 as the other tenants can simply not move out when the single goes and that allows you to start possession proceedings. Landlord doesnt have to start court action immediately and can say to the tenants that they wont do so if the tenants can show that they have found another place and have a date to leave.

                Comment


                  #9
                  I think this is the route that is being followed.
                  The question is do the remaining tenants have to pay the total rent for the remaining period? I suppose that depends on exactly what the tenancy agreement says.
                  By accepting rent after the move out date of the singleton, is LL not now creating a new tenancy with the Section 21 referring only to the pre-existing agreement

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by charliesugar View Post
                    By accepting rent after the move out date of the singleton, is LL not now creating a new tenancy with the Section 21 referring only to the pre-existing agreement
                    That is why I gave the two options in post #3.

                    Comment

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