Joint Tenants renting - Partner of 1 Tenant wants to move in

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    Joint Tenants renting - Partner of 1 Tenant wants to move in

    Hello all

    I would be grateful for some advice please. My problem is as follows: -

    I have 2 tenants living in my rented property where they have been for the last 2 years. The Tenancy deposit is registered in their names.

    One of the Tenants is now married and wants his wife to move in with and share the flat with his friend in the 2 bedroom property. I have no problem with this as he has kept me informed about the situation.

    My questions are: -

    1) Do I need to draw up a new Tenancy agreement when the wife moves in? I will in due course do the necessary background checks on the wife etc.

    2) How is the Tenancy deposit affected by the addition of a new person in the household?

    Many thanks for all your help.

    #2
    What does the other tenant think about this? Even if they are happy about it, the third tenant will make the property an HMO and you will be bound by all the HMO Management Regulations. If the council has an additional licensing scheme in the area you may even have to get an HMO licence. If you do go ahead then for the reasons you suggest I would start a new agreement with fresh paperwork and deposits

    Comment


      #3
      It will not be an HMO as husband & wife = 1 family unit, other occupant would make 2.
      3rd person will increase FW&T.
      You cannot exclude a spouse IMO.

      Comment


        #4
        Best just ignore the wife IIWY. Your tenants will have a pre October 2015 tenancy which is a lot easier to evict than subsequent ones.

        As for extra wear & tear... I'd have thought she might be an asset, as it will stop the other two living like pigs.

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by mariner View Post
          It will not be an HMO as husband & wife = 1 family unit, other occupant would make 2.
          I thought 3 or more people forming 2 or more households made it a HMO.

          Comment


            #6
            Three people in two households is an HMO.
            So all the HMO regulations (and possibly planning issues) arise when the third person moves in (presumably this has already happened in reality).

            Whether a new tenancy agreement is required depends on what the landlord prefers and what any mortgage lender or insurer requires.
            The other joint tenant may decline to sign a new agreement.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Thanks everyone for your responses.

              I have since been in touch with my local authority who have confirmed that to meet the HMO criteria it needs to meet the following criteria: -

              1) it's rented to 5 or more people who form more than 1 household.
              2) it's at least 3 storeys high.
              3) tenants share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities.

              My property does not fall under the HMO rules according to them.

              In view of this how should i deal with the revised AST or what happens to the Deposit held with the TDS?

              Thanks again.

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Novicelandlord2017 View Post

                In view of this how should i deal with the revised AST or what happens to the Deposit held with the TDS?

                Thanks again.
                What I said before:


                Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                Best just ignore the wife IIWY. Your tenants will have a pre October 2015 tenancy which is a lot easier to evict than subsequent ones.

                As for extra wear & tear... I'd have thought she might be an asset, as it will stop the other two living like pigs.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Novicelandlord2017 View Post
                  Thanks everyone for your responses.

                  I have since been in touch with my local authority who have confirmed that to meet the HMO criteria it needs to meet the following criteria: -

                  1) it's rented to 5 or more people who form more than 1 household.
                  2) it's at least 3 storeys high.
                  3) tenants share toilet, bathroom or kitchen facilities.

                  My property does not fall under the HMO rules according to them.
                  You've been misinformed.

                  Those sound like the criteria for the need for a local authority licence for the HMO.

                  A property with more than two people in more than one "household" is automatically an HMO and subject to HMO regulations.
                  Including (but not limited to):
                  To provide all occupiers with the manager's name, address and telephone number, this information must be clearly displayed within in the property
                  To ensure that all fire escapes are clear of any obstacles and that they are kept in good order, to ensure that all fire safety measures are maintained in good working order and that adequate fire safety measures are in place with regards to the design, structural conditions and number of occupiers in the HMO
                  The manager must maintain adequate water supply and drainage to the dwelling
                  The manager must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted
                  The manager must ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested by a suitably qualified person, at intervals not exceeding five years
                  The manager must provide the electrical and gas inspection certificates within seven days of receiving a request of writing from the local housing authority
                  To ensure that all common parts of the HMO are maintained in good decorative order, and safe and working condition. This includes out-buildings, boundaries and gardens
                  The manager must ensure each unit of living accommodation and its contents are clean before occupiers move in and are maintained in good repair and clean working order throughout the occupation by the tenant
                  The manager must provide adequate facilities to dispose of all waste produced by the property

                  Some of these are more onerous than they appear - the "fire safety measures" one probably involves talking to your local fire brigade or another specialist and doing what they suggest (which will probably involve a higher than "normal" standard of doors, heat sensitive fire alarms in kitchen(s) and proper fire escapes).

                  There are also planning implications for an HMO as it is a distinct "type" of property.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    You've been misinformed.

                    Those sound like the criteria for the need for a local authority licence for the HMO.

                    A property with more than two people in more than one "household" is automatically an HMO and subject to HMO regulations.
                    Including (but not limited to):
                    To provide all occupiers with the manager's name, address and telephone number, this information must be clearly displayed within in the property
                    To ensure that all fire escapes are clear of any obstacles and that they are kept in good order, to ensure that all fire safety measures are maintained in good working order and that adequate fire safety measures are in place with regards to the design, structural conditions and number of occupiers in the HMO
                    The manager must maintain adequate water supply and drainage to the dwelling
                    The manager must not unreasonably cause the electric and gas supply to be interrupted
                    The manager must ensure that every fixed electrical installation is inspected and tested by a suitably qualified person, at intervals not exceeding five years
                    The manager must provide the electrical and gas inspection certificates within seven days of receiving a request of writing from the local housing authority
                    To ensure that all common parts of the HMO are maintained in good decorative order, and safe and working condition. This includes out-buildings, boundaries and gardens
                    The manager must ensure each unit of living accommodation and its contents are clean before occupiers move in and are maintained in good repair and clean working order throughout the occupation by the tenant
                    The manager must provide adequate facilities to dispose of all waste produced by the property

                    Some of these are more onerous than they appear - the "fire safety measures" one probably involves talking to your local fire brigade or another specialist and doing what they suggest (which will probably involve a higher than "normal" standard of doors, heat sensitive fire alarms in kitchen(s) and proper fire escapes).

                    There are also planning implications for an HMO as it is a distinct "type" of property.
                    All the more reason not to acknowledge the wife's existence?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      jpkeates you are right he/she has been misinformed.
                      The key is that all properties that have 3 or more people and form more than one household are a HMO. However, not every HMO needs a licence. So ...
                      The information NV2017 was given is the national (governments) definition of a 'Large HMO' and all properties across the country that fit this category must have a HMO licence.
                      'Small HMOs' do not need a licence unless the local authority has an Article 4 in place. They could also need planning permission to change the use of the property from C3 (normal residential dwellings) to C4 (HMO) if the former is in place.
                      My opinion is my own and is for informational purposes only and does not constitute advice. It is recommended that specific professional advice is sought before acting on any of the information given.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by tomymm View Post
                        'Small HMOs' do not need a licence unless the local authority has an Article 4 in place. They could also need planning permission to change the use of the property from C3 (normal residential dwellings) to C4 (HMO) if the former is in place.
                        I think you're getting a bit confused. The Article 4 directive is about planning restrictions not HMO licensing. So called 'Small HMOs' would need a licence if the Council had an additional licensing scheme requiring it.

                        Comment

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