when is a tenancy a holiday let?

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  • gregpeck
    started a topic when is a tenancy a holiday let?

    when is a tenancy a holiday let?

    Dear all,

    I am an ex-tenant in a deposit dispute.

    I rented a room for only 15 days. There was another flatmate. I signed a handwritten document that stated I am using the flat as a "holiday let". I was not on holiday though. The flat is his residential home that he let out for only 15 days.

    The handwritten agreement mentions the rent paid upfront and the deposit - nothing else.

    He claims damages that preexisted and has not returned our deposit yet. There was no inspection of the flat before. What are my options?

    Thank you



    Q1 – Where is the rented property located (England / Wales / Scotland / N Ireland)?
    England
    Q2 – What type of Tenancy Agreement (TA) is this e.g. sole tenant / multiple tenant / room only?
    Not sure. Multiple tenant or room only
    Q3 – What date did current TA start dd/mm/yy?
    20 April 2017
    Q4 – How long was initial fixed term (6/12/24 months / other)?
    15 days
    Q5 – Does the TA state that rent is due weekly? / 4-weekly? / per calendar month (if so, on what same date each month)?
    paid up front
    Q6 – Did the TA require a tenant damage deposit to be paid? If so, on what date was this paid (dd/mm/yy)?
    20 April 2017
    Q7 – If your query relates to a notice for repossession from the landlord (a Section 8 or Section 21 notice) or a tenants's notice to quit to the landlord, please provide the exact date the notice was sent/received (dd/mm/yy).
    no
    Q8 – Does the landlord live in the same property as the tenant?
    no

  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Send LBA then sue him, MCoL..

    For guidance
    https://www.citizensadvice.org.uk/la.../small-claims/

    Good luck!

    (He sounds like a crooked cheat but this ain;t a deposit protection issue as it ain't an AST... )

    Leave a comment:


  • gregpeck
    replied
    Originally posted by Mrs Mug View Post
    Why did you rent the property for only 15 days?
    I was moving home. I found that more convenient than staying with a friend. Another question was why 400 pounds. I honestly thought that it was normal. This is in London.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Actually we know nothing. Just a vague, imprecise unclear snippet of what he purportedly did. OP needs to test his case in court.

    Leave a comment:


  • nukecad
    replied
    He's talking about 'long term' damage that is unlikely to have been caused in just 15 days.

    If you had ripped his shower off the wall, damaged the shower cubicle, broken the table, etc. then he would have a claim against you.
    But not for what you are telling us.

    Leave a comment:


  • Mrs Mug
    replied
    Originally posted by gregpeck View Post
    I rented a property for 15 days and there is a dispute issue.
    Why did you rent the property for only 15 days?

    Leave a comment:


  • jjlandlord
    replied
    For an assured tenancy, the property must be the only or principal home of the tenant. At face value the duration of the tenancy does not really matter.

    In general Airbnb lets are not ASTs for this very reason.

    I think the 'holiday let' exclusion is to prevent a tenant from claiming assured (shorthold) protection on the ground that he hasn't any other home.

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    Originally posted by boletus View Post
    Interesting this "holiday" let thing. (I'm also of the opinion it doesn't have to be for an actual holiday)
    Does anyone know the legal definition or have any case law?................
    HA 1988 Schedule 1(9) - Sched 1 lists those tenancies that cannot be (may not be, legally impossible to be) an AT
    http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/...liday-lettings
    Holiday lettings

    9 A tenancy the purpose of which is to confer on the tenant the right to occupy the dwelling-house for a holiday.
    But there's case law in the books e.g.
    -
    R v Rent Officer for Camden LBC ex p Plant 1980
    Holiday let agreement did not reflect reality of situation and tenancy protected
    &
    McHale v Daneham 1979
    ‘Working holiday’ came within exception to security
    &
    Buchmann v May 1978
    Courts should be ‘astute to detect a sham’ but for tenant to establish this
    &
    Killick v Roberts 1991
    Rescission available where tenancy entered into as a result of tenant’s fraud


    AirBnB of course makes life even more interesting (that their paperwork says one thing don't mean it can't be an AST

    I regret that persons appear keen (all side, tenants, landlords, agents, MPs, HCEOs...) to agree to & sign paperwork when knowing full well it don't reflect reality. I've no sympathy for cheats whoever they are & from whatever sector/side they come.

    Leave a comment:


  • boletus
    replied
    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
    There's no need for a "holiday let" to be for an actual holiday.
    It covers accommodation where the occupant actually lives somewhere else.
    Interesting this "holiday" let thing. (I'm also of the opinion it doesn't have to be for an actual holiday)
    Does anyone know the legal definition or have any case law?

    For example someone who leaves their partner (who owned the property) and moves into a holiday let and claims it is an assured tenancy.

    Some cases are obviously clear cut such as a twee country cottage in Devon, but a 2 bed terrace in Huddersfield?

    Leave a comment:


  • jpkeates
    replied
    There's no need for a "holiday let" to be for an actual holiday.
    It covers accommodation where the occupant actually lives somewhere else.

    The agreement should outline what the deposit is to be used for, but normally the money would remain the property of the tenant and be in the control of the landlord.
    The person letting the property needs to be able to prove that they have suffered a loss as a consequence of the agreement entered into and that they are entitled to compensation for it (essentially that it was not foreseeable as a part of the arrangement).
    Assuming that the agreement doesn't say anything to the contrary, the landlord can only retain any of the deposit that the person handing over the deposit agrees to - which, in this case, is nothing.


    So the OP should send a letter before action demanding the return of the deposit in full, and then (assuming its not paid) use MCOL or a small claim via a court to recover their money.

    Leave a comment:


  • AndrewDod
    replied
    Wright76,

    As I understand story the other occupant was landlord/owner him/herself who just happened to be away for two weeks.

    Shelter has a step by step guide to court claims for lodger deposits

    https://england.shelter.org.uk/housi...odgers_deposit

    Leave a comment:


  • theartfullodger
    replied
    For clarity, an AST does not have to be 6 months minimum - it could be for 1 day, 1 week, 1 month, 3 months etc etc

    Leave a comment:


  • Wright76
    replied
    Also if there was another tenant has he also been made liable?

    Did he know of the damage being caused? Would he be willing to support you as a witness?

    Leave a comment:


  • Wright76
    replied
    Send the landlord a letter before action advising you will be making a claim in court.

    Without an inventory he will struggle to prove you caused the damage although you will also struggle to prove you didn't.

    He must evidence his claim.

    If you truly could not be expected to know there was a problem and could have informed the landlord then I can't see how you cant win.

    Unless the damage was malicious or you ignored an obvious repair then you aren't liable.

    Put this is in your letter before action and advise you will be pursuing all costs unless the deposit is returned in full

    Leave a comment:


  • mariner
    replied
    IMO either it was a short term Let of <6 months fixed Term , so not an AST requiring deposit protection etc or LL rented a room in his house and went on holiday for 2+ weeks
    Again rent-a-room does not require deposit protection.
    OP, sue LL for deposit via SCC/MCoL and see what Judge awards?
    Did you only want a room for 14 days? Why?
    Don't get ansty with those offering you advice.

    Leave a comment:

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