Tenancy ending and T wants to stay for extra week or two

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  • #31
    She can only stay for a maximum of 2 weeks, that's all that I will allow. Also the whole thing about paying every 2 weeks is what she proposed, doesn't mean I have to accept, I am putting it out here to get views before I reply.

    If its just a case of overstaying for a maximum of 2 weeks, what should i do ?


    Originally posted by Wright76 View Post
    Well I'm beginning to change my opinion based on your last post!.

    If it isn't simply a matter of overstaying for a couple of weeks then you DO need a clear agreement in place.

    If your not deducting from the deposit but accepting fortnightly rent then a tenancy will exist and you will need to evict with a minimum of two months notice.

    I think as well as this suiting the tenant you are trying to have your cake and eat it. You cannot let her stay and then still guarantee she will move out once you have a tenant. Your leaving the ball in her court.

    You need to decide what you want. Either you accept her notice and she leaves or you accept a new tenancy has commenced and your required to serve a minimum of two months notice.

    If the posts have changed and she wants to stay longer than two weeks now then tell her that her previous notice was not valid and she will need to serve notice to the end of the next full rental period. You can't make her do this though!

    If she does then at least you can apply for possession when it expires if you need the property back and she still hasn't gone. She will be liable for rent in full months but if she surrenders mid term you can apportion rent if you agree and choose to do so

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    • #32
      How will you ensure its only 2 weeks?

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      • #33
        There is absolutely no guarantee, but even as it stands I cant forcefully evict her also. So I just have to work with her thats all.

        Originally posted by DPT57 View Post
        How will you ensure its only 2 weeks?

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        • #34
          There is some very muddled thinking going on here. And some wishful thinking.

          The tenant has NOT given notice. The tenant can't give notice in relation to a fixed term tenancy and anything 'like' notice can be no more than a non-binding statement of future intention. There is no doubt at all that a new statutory periodic tenancy will come into being if the tenant does not vacate at the end of the fixed term, and all of the usual rules regarding ending periodic tenancies apply here because this is a perfectly commonplace situation. The LL can't 'not allow' the situation to drift beyond two weeks: if the tenant stays, the tenant has security of tenure - that's even the title given to s5. The landlord can issue s21 notice now, and act on it if the tenant doesn't leave (two months later), but that's it.

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          • #35
            Are you saying the notice the T gave is not valid here ? or is it because its slightly for longer than 1 month and falls on the day the tenancy ended ? If i issue a s21 here as just in case, can the government copy version be used: https://www.gov.uk/government/upload...n_property.pdf

            Thanks.

            Originally posted by StuartH View Post
            There is some very muddled thinking going on here. And some wishful thinking.

            The tenant has NOT given notice. The tenant can't give notice in relation to a fixed term tenancy and anything 'like' notice can be no more than a non-binding statement of future intention. There is no doubt at all that a new statutory periodic tenancy will come into being if the tenant does not vacate at the end of the fixed term, and all of the usual rules regarding ending periodic tenancies apply here because this is a perfectly commonplace situation. The LL can't 'not allow' the situation to drift beyond two weeks: if the tenant stays, the tenant has security of tenure - that's even the title given to s5. The landlord can issue s21 notice now, and act on it if the tenant doesn't leave (two months later), but that's it.

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            • #36
              We're going in circles: please read #16 & #19 again. If someone believes I'm wrong, they're free to say so.

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              • #37
                Just to reiterate what I believe must have been said in a thread this long, the tenant can't serve a valid notice during the fixed term of a tenancy, therefore the notice has no effect. They can leave without notice at the end of the fixed term but if they stay it becomes an SPT and they then have to give a minimum of 1 month notice expiring at the end of a rent period to end it. You can serve notice any time now but that doesn't end it, it just allows you to proceed to court after 2 months if the tenant doesn't leave.

                You can agree whatever you want with the tenant, but if they don't want to leave after 2 weeks, there is no possibility whatsoever of you removing them at that point.

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                • #38
                  Wot he said

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                  • #39
                    Originally posted by StuartH View Post
                    We're going in circles: please read #16 & #19 again. If someone believes I'm wrong, they're free to say so.
                    I think you are wrong.
                    I will say why here, but I will not argue further.

                    S5(2) Housing Act 1988 does not say that a statutory periodic tenancy automatically arises; it says that the tenant is entitled to a statutory periodic tenancy.
                    By giving notice, the tenant has clearly indicated that she does not wish to exercise her entitlement, and so no SP tenancy arises.
                    I believe that the tenant is then in the position of S18 Distress for Rent Act 1737.

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                    • #40
                      To the original poster I say:
                      1. By accepting her notice, no statutory periodic tenancy arose.
                      2. By agreeing that she can stay on, you have created a new tenancy, but one with no written terms; you do not have recourse to the Distress for Rent Act 1737.
                      3. You cannot serve S21 in the first 4 months of this new tenancy.
                      4. It appears that one clause in the tenancy agreement is that the tenant can terminate with 3 days notice (or possibly less).
                      5. The purpose of a written agreement is to cover when things go wrong; if things always went right then they would not be needed.
                        I believe that all the posters above were trying to tell you this, but they were too late (because of 1 and 2 above).
                      6. For the future, I would advise that you seek advice before you act.
                      7. You may need to consider the position of the deposit, both for the old and new tenancies.
                      8. I hope that your tenant behaves as she has promised.

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                      • #41
                        Originally posted by MdeB View Post
                        S5(2) Housing Act 1988 does not say that a statutory periodic tenancy automatically arises; it says that the tenant is entitled to a statutory periodic tenancy.
                        It says no such thing. Look at the text.

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                        • #42
                          Originally posted by StuartH View Post
                          It says no such thing. Look at the text.
                          http://www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/1988/50/section/5
                          (2)If an assured tenancy which is a fixed term tenancy comes to an end otherwise than by virtue of—

                          (a)an order of the court [F4of the kind mentioned in subsection (1)(a) or (b) or any other order of the court], F5...

                          (b)a surrender or other action on the part of the tenant[F6, or

                          (c)the giving of a notice under section 33D of the Immigration Act 2014,]

                          then, subject to section 7 and Chapter II below, the tenant shall be entitled to remain in possession of the dwelling-house let under that tenancy and, subject to subsection (4) below, his right to possession shall depend upon a periodic tenancy arising by virtue of this section.
                          ...
                          I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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