Advice regarding a S21.

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    Advice regarding a S21.

    Hi everyone,

    Recently taken over management of our property business, 18 residential properties, rented mainly to DSS tenants. Previously with management agents, but am giving it a go myself now!

    One tenant's AST started on 8th August 2016, and will end on 8th August 2017. She is required to pay top up of £7 a week, as the council pay the rest for her. Its come to light that she hasn't paid a top up since November 2016 (one of the reasons for taking back from management company!).

    Over the past month or two we have given her chances to start paying top ups, and arrears. Last chance was that she would pay £20 a week, starting yesterday, however the payment never came. I called and she outright said she wouldnt/couldnt afford it, and she can pay 'some' in another two weeks time. I seriously want to nip this in the bud, and do not want to renew the tenancy when it is up for renewal this August.

    How do you think I should go about this?
    Should I serve the S.21 now?
    Should I give a couple of weeks to pay the arrears and keep on top of top ups, and then serve the S.21 when its 2 months until the end of the contract?

    I feel a bit harsh, but she has had numerous opportunities to pay, and when I visit her house she has a house full of new and nice items that I couldn't afford! So she just isn't prioritising rent, and isn't communicating with me - I don't have the time or resources to chase top ups like this. Her mother is in another one of our properties and was in huge arrears which she is now making progress towards paying off, and I don't want this tenant to go down the same route - I'd rather get her out, and find someone who can pay the rent.

    Also, what happens when the end of the tenancy comes and if she doesn't move out?!

    Any advice on when or how to serve the S.21 would be greatly appreciated.

    Many thanks in advance,

    Rebecca

    #2
    My advice is to let an experienced agent run it until you have gained experience. The only reason I am saying this is because you have 18 properties or tenancies to deal with. If you don't have much idea at the moment you are heading for big trouble. One or two are manageable if inexperienced, but 18 is a lot for even the most experienced!

    Comment


      #3
      Hi, Thanks for the reply. I didn't want to go into detail in my original post, but we are very experienced landlords, and have ran the properties on and off for over 15 years - we have just decided to take them back full time now, and I have left my job to do so. Some are staying with management agents, but the majority I am happy to run. I just wanted to get someones opinion on this one tenant, as we have never ended an AST at the end of the fixed term before, and thought it would be useful to get advice. We have had every other tenancy situation imaginable however!

      Comment


        #4
        Yes, I would issue s21 now. You don't have to act on it, but it does demonstrate you are serious.

        You also might want to issue section 8 if you don't want tenant to be able to get a council house when you kick her out. Don't act on the section 8 though. Just act on the s21 in August if things are no better.

        Come August, I suggest you follow the instructions on this site: https://www.gov.uk/accelerated-possession-eviction.

        However, concentrate on the s21 for now. There is a prescribed form for this nowadays. Scroll down and click on 'Section 21 Notice'

        Comment


          #5
          Many thanks JK0. It's helpful to hear I'm considering the right things!

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by becamarsh View Post
            we are very experienced landlords, and have ran the properties on and off for over 15 years
            Originally posted by becamarsh View Post
            Also, what happens when the end of the tenancy comes and if she doesn't move out?!
            Not really sure that these two posts tell the same story.
            When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
            Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by becamarsh View Post
              ....One tenant's AST started on 8th August 2016, and will end on 8th August 2017. She is required to pay top up of £7 a week, as the council pay the rest for her. ....
              Very interesting but when did they 1st move in? Might not be what you things.

              No, she is not required to pay £7, she is required to pay ALL the rent, in-full & on-time, not 2 or 4 weeks in arrears as it's HB/LHA...
              .
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #8
                You could make an mcol claim now for the outsganding rent then issue s21 nearer the end of the tenancy.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                  Not really sure that these two posts tell the same story.
                  jpkeates - I don't think your reply was helpful, and probably a waste of both of our times? I'm not here to defend my experience, or inexperience - just thought that this would be a forum where I could come and openly throw ideas about and get advice from people who know the field - much like I would if I had someone here in person, which I don't. Your comment is unnecessary and patronising - maybe just comment in the future if you have something useful to say?

                  To others who have replied, thank you - I do appreciate any useful comments and the ability to check my thinking - thanks again.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you for your comment - but it wasn't meant to waste your time (and certainly not mine).

                    If you are going to ask for advice, the more information we have to work with, the more chance of giving sensible advice.
                    As a "very experienced landlord" I'd have expected you to have, at very least, some general sense of what happens when a s21 notice expires or a tenancy "ends" and the tenant doesn't move out.
                    You apply to a court for a repossession order, which, provided the notice is valid, should be granted (and there are a number of things to check to give you the greatest chance of success).

                    If you are not sure about what you're doing, I'd probably suggest getting someone else to do the work - it's stressful and easy to cock up by mistake.
                    When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                    Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The T does not end unless Tenant vol vacates or you successfully legally evict . (LL 101)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Hi Rebecca

                        You can only serve a Section 21 Notice to expire at the end of the fixed term (so it will expire on 8th August 2017 based on your post). Once the Notice has expired you'd have to issue a claim in the County Court to get a possession order. You need to make sure that the agents have correctly served all of the necessary documents on the tenant before you serve the Notice.

                        You can also serve a Section 8 Notice but you would be relying upon a 'discretionary' ground if her rent arrears are less than two months (which they might be based on the figures in your post).

                        I hope that helps.

                        Laura

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                          Thank you for your comment - but it wasn't meant to waste your time (and certainly not mine).

                          If you are going to ask for advice, the more information we have to work with, the more chance of giving sensible advice.
                          As a "very experienced landlord" I'd have expected you to have, at very least, some general sense of what happens when a s21 notice expires or a tenancy "ends" and the tenant doesn't move out.
                          You apply to a court for a repossession order, which, provided the notice is valid, should be granted (and there are a number of things to check to give you the greatest chance of success).

                          If you are not sure about what you're doing, I'd probably suggest getting someone else to do the work - it's stressful and easy to cock up by mistake.
                          It's not for you to decide if I am experienced or not, and I didn't come here to get judged and for you to insinuate that I don't know what I am doing and need an agent. As previously mentioned, I am very experienced, and I do know what happens with a section 21, and when a tenancy ends - just wanted to discuss the situation openly with helpful people. I thought that was the point of posting questions? It seems you have become hung up on me saying I'm 'experienced' - not sure why, its irrelevant really.
                          If it wasn't for the other useful people commenting, I would be seriously considering never returning to these forums. You should consider that affect you have had on someone wanting to access this site for support for the first time.
                          Anyway, kindly don't comment on my post anymore. I would like to be able to come to the post and not be ridiculed or have my time wasted further.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Very informative, thanks, understand your situation much better now.

                            Cheers!
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment

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