How comprehensive does an AST have to be?

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    #16
    Thanks. I was sure I had seen that before, but couldn't find it the last time I looked for it.
    I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

    I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

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      #17
      With legal drafting it is very much a case of horses for courses. In a tenancy agreement for a short term letting of the average property you want to avoid overelaboration. I have not seen the latest version, but the precedent in the Which? guide to letting and renting always seemed to me to be pitched about right for the letting of a freehold house where there are no complications.

      DIY legal drafting is a bit of a tricky issue. No sensible lawyer thinks he has mastered drafting totally. Bearing that in mind, no non-lawyer should get the idea that drafting is simple. Two important aspects are knowing what to put in (which includes knowing what to leave out) and getting the right words in the right order. The former comes down to knowledge. The latter comes down to experience; it is important not to get over-confident. A high degree of literacy does not on its own guarantee good drafting - other skills are needed. Whether good draftsmen are born or made I would not like to say.

      If you are going DIY you need to start with a precedent which has pedigree. A draft issuing out of an agent's office may be excellent, but you need to assume it is not as it has no pedigree. Online precedents other than those published by legal publishers should also be avoided. You even need to be wary of drafts produced by lawyers as not all professional drafting is of the highest standard. See further here: http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...-is-a-good-one

      Your best bet is to get a precedent from a book published by a specialist publisher. Once you have it resist tinkering with it. In particular be careful what you take out. It is not unknown for provisions benefiting landlords to be completely misunderstood and deleted.

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        #18
        Hi rather than start my own thread i would like to ask a question of my own. My rental property is empty again and i'll be looking for new tenants, for the AST agreement forms can i just reuse the AST form that my estate agent used originally back in 2015, they sent me it in pdf format , i would just copy/paste reprint it but remove their company name/logo and change the dates and new tenant names accordingly. Would this be a legally binding tenancy agreement?. thanks.

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          #19
          Don't hijack a thread, it confuses.
          LA AST is Copyright.
          Pay a Solic to compile one according to your legal & specific requirements, or risk using one in the public domain eg Govt example.

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            #20
            Whether the agent's text is copyright or not, the chances are that it is probably better not to copy it - see post 17.

            My brother sent me the tenancy agreement used by his agents, a reputable firm of chartered surveyors. It was not entirely satisfactory. When my brother passed on my observations the agents expressed surprise as they had had the form checked and "improved" by a solicitor.

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              #21
              Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
              Tenants don't read tenancies in my experience.

              That £5 still available!
              Totally agree. Either don't bother to read and digest, or choose to ignore leaving you to recharge the loss (that's if you can).

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                #22
                For those who are members, is the RLA's AST a model of a comprehensive AST?

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                  #23
                  Originally posted by tatemono View Post
                  For those who are members, is the RLA's AST a model of a comprehensive AST?
                  Someone sent me a copy of a model tenancy agreement prepared by one organisation, but I cannot remember which one. Whichever it was, I was not impressed.

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                    #24
                    Originally posted by tatemono View Post
                    For those who are members, is the RLA's AST a model of a comprehensive AST?
                    Members are not permitted to make negative comments regarding named persons or organisations. See
                    http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...hp?do=vsarules
                    - rules 20 & 21

                    RLA's AST is 6 pages long.

                    Government one, **free** from Mother T, is 50 pages (quite a few pages of notes in addition to the bare AST)
                    https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ssured-tenancy

                    However, bear in mind you need access to not just AST but all the other documents, notices, guidance etc...
                    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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                      #25
                      Is a no smoking clause in the building enforceable? Noticed my TA I did for my tenants doesn't mention it, however I did advertise for non smoking tenants, while ago now but I think I was advised it was not enforceable at the time.

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                        #26
                        Enforceable? How, you want someone to go round, grab the fag out of the scr*ats gob and bin it? (Good luck with that).

                        Such a clause is enforceable in the sense that if breached you can issue s8g12 but I doubt any sane judge would evict for just that.

                        Smoking damage should be claimable on ADR, with the right evidence.

                        Anything you don;t like (barring unlawful discrimination by you of tenant's protected characteristics ) is enforceable by s21.
                        I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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                          #27
                          A tenant who doesn't smoke might take up the habit.

                          As Mr Lodger says, the practical outcome of a no smoking clause is to remove from "fair" wear and tear any damage arising from smoking.
                          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

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                            #28
                            Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post
                            Smoking damage should be claimable on ADR, with the right evidence.
                            thanks, this is what I was after. I assume it should be mentioned in the TA then, not sure why I missed it all those years ago.

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                              #29
                              Originally posted by Glover1862 View Post
                              thanks, this is what I was after. I assume it should be mentioned in the TA then, not sure why I missed it all those years ago.
                              You have good check-in inventory & photos and descriptions saying no pong of smoke, signed by tenants? (I don't..)

                              Yes, should be in TA: (If you want it)
                              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

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                                #30
                                Originally posted by tatemono View Post
                                For those who are members, is the RLA's AST a model of a comprehensive AST?
                                I have some concerns about the RLA model AST which I have expressed to them. I still continue to use it, however, because despite what I consider to be drawbacks, I've failed to find anything any better!

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