Ending tenancy!!

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    Ending tenancy!!

    Hi all, a friend of mine is having issues with her agency and landlord and we need help, preferably if anyone is legally qualified, on constructing an email to say that she is out of the tenancy and is not responsible. We are calling shelter also but any input appreciated.

    Tenancy is rented in England, between 3 tenants. AST from 1st December 2015 until 30th Novemvber 2016, rent paid on a monthly basis. Only 1 tenant wishes to leave

    ""
    call them 'A'. A's fixed term contract is ending on 30th November. There are 3 housemates, treated as 'the tenant', all signed the contract and are jointly and severally liable. A wants to leave the house and the contract. However, the estate agent has said that the tenancy will become periodic and A will still be liable for rent if she leaves. A periodic tenancy was not stipulated in the contract they signed last year. Notice was given via email that my partner would be leaving and not be renewing her contract on th 7th of October.

    The agency are now playing hardball and off our lack of knowledge regarding the matter. We may have potentially found a replacement, however if this falls through, what are our options?

    Following a check on shelter and talking to Citizens advice, we are aware of what the Periodic tenancy is and how it has come into effect. What we gather is that she will have to roll onto the periodic tenancy and serve 4 weeks (how often rent is paid) notice in writing on the 1st of December. Citizens advice also stipulated that her notice means the the periodic tenancy should not even begin because it was enough notice.

    However we were of the understanding that due to joint and liable severability, her serving her notice voids her being liable to pay for any rent post 30th November and voids the contract for all given that the same tenants will not be remaining in the property after this date.

    What are our options on this just in-case? At the moment, if replacement falls though, we are planning to fight the 'one ends it for all' argument until the 30th. """

    The landlord has now suggested various options including subletting (without knowledge of the agency) in order to come to a solution. All suggestions are in favor of the 2 tenants who want to remain and is putting the onus of finding a new tenant on A. Also suggested using her deposit to cover rent until a replacement has been found

    Our questions are
    A) Is A serving notice of leaving the property of the end of the tenancy make her in the clear as they are all joint and severally liable?
    B) Does the periodic tenancy still come into effect?
    C) How do we confidently put this to the landlord (who is a property lawyer themselves)?

    Thank you in advance for your help

    #2
    Fill in the sticky with information.

    Sounds like a fixed term ast is coming to an end and you all want to leave?
    "I'm afraid I didn't do enough background checks apart from checking her identity on Facebook" - ANON

    What I say is based on my own experience and research - Please don't take as gospel without first checking the gospel yourself.

    Comment


      #3
      Apologies, have updated with as much as possible.

      No, only 1 tenant wishes to leave

      Comment


        #4
        What does the tenancy agreement says about any but not all of the joint tenant wanting to leave and any notice requirements?

        A fixed term tenancy ends at the end of the fixed term. No statutory periodic tenancy will arise if ALL of the joint tenants leave by the end of the last day of the tenancy. If any stays on, a SPT will arise for all the joint tenants. "The tenant" does not have to give any notice if they all leave by the end of the fixed term.

        A notice to quit by any of the joint tenant will end the SPT for everyone on its expiry. A notice to quit by a tenant must be of at least one complete period of the tenancy (4 weeks), ending on the last day or the first day of a period of tenancy. The notice to quit may only be served once the SPT has actually began. So if it's served on 1 December, it can be served for 29 December. If that's what the tenant intends to do, they have to be careful about any contractual provision for service & the general CPR deemed service rule so that the notice is deemed served precisely on 1 December and not any earlier or later.

        EDIT:
        The above post was written with "serve 4 weeks (how often rent is paid)" in mind, but now the original post also says "rent paid on a monthly basis". Which one is it? The two statements can't be both right!
        Last edited by KTC; 24-11-2016, 23:44 PM. Reason: Question on contradictory statements
        I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

        I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

        Comment


          #5
          Have checked, it is monthly. So, to clarify, she will have to begin the SPT because the other 2 tenants wish to stay? Contract does not say about one tenant wishing to leave.

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by MGDIrish View Post
            So, to clarify, she will have to begin the SPT because the other 2 tenants wish to stay?
            Correct.

            Tenant notice to quit, to be served on 1 December, to expire on 1 January, which will then end tenancy for everybody. Once given, the notice cannot be withdrawn. The other joint tenants does not have to agree to the giving of the notice to quit, and the landlord cannot refuse to accept it.

            I'm doubt neither of the other two tenants will want that to happen, especially given the dates. Talk and try sort something out.
            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

            Comment


              #7
              Yes we have tried to find a replacement but it hasnt worked out. So unless a deal can be stricken between tenants B and C, she will need to pay 1 more months rent and that is it?

              Frustrating that this can happen because the tenancy has expired and not all tenants will be remaining in the property.

              Comment


                #8
                Yes, assuming A gets the wording of the notice to quit right, serves it using an acceptable method, precisely on 1 December.
                I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Is there a way to word it right ? Or are you referring to the dates you soecified

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Hiya - I have a similar issue and I was just wondering how that could be the case when the periodic tenancy is deemed to be a "new" tenancy and not a continuation. If you have said that you do not want to part of a new tenancy prior to the end of the old, then upon the completion of the fixed period, surely it is debatable whether there can be a tenancy to become a periodic one? The finding of the monk case was that in a periodic tenancy each new period is a new tenancy that can only happen if all the joint tenants agree to it. So likewise in the even that "notice" has been given by one joint tenant that they will not be entering into a further agreement after the completion of the fixed term, they can't be forced into a periodic one?

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Sorry to add but this would also contradict 5b of the housing act 1988 - which says that the periodic can't arise if notice is served by the tenant on or before the start of the periodic one? I get that we are talking about joint and several liability here, but the true sense of that is to enable any one to be responsible for all? So if there is no defined clause in your contract which says that you all must state that you agree to the end of the tenancy on the contract date, then a notice served by one, like in a periodic tenancy, is a notice served by all? If any of the joint tenants remain after the end date then they do so outside of any contract - the fixed period having expired and no periodic being able to be formed because notice has been given- and will therefore be trespassers, for which the joint tenants who have left could not be held liable? Which would be the case if the refused to vacate after ntq in periodic situation

                      Sorry again from a sleepless man who looks at contracts a lot ( not in anyway lawyerly and just curious)

                      Comment


                        #12
                        CurioGeorge, your understanding of LL&T Law is totally wrong. No Tenant can serve valid NTQ during Fixed Term, though LL may accept it as offer to surrender; T can vacate on last day of FT, without Notice, but if they remain in occupation SPT will arise, requiring T to give min 1 full month Notice to expire at end of next rel Rental period (almost 2 months).
                        In the case of a joint T, there is only 1 Tenant (comprised of all joint Ts who must act as one T.
                        They all remain liable for rent & property, even if one leaves, until T legally terminated.

                        OP, it is in your friend A's interest for all joint Ts to find a replacement, acceptable to remainders and LL asap as per LL conditions. She can serve valid NTQ on 1st Dec to expire on 31st Jan. It should be unequivocal ie I WILL vacate my joint tenancy at <property> on 31st Jan 17. LL may decide to offer new AST to remainers from 1 Feb.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Hi mariner - thats why I am asking i agree that a notice to quit can't be served during the fixed period. But the housing act does say that a periodic cannot arise if you have given any "notice" or "other document" to the effect on or before the date a periodic could commence it can't commence? So is that not right? I am looking a section 5 b ?

                          Comment


                            #14
                            CurioGeorge, "all positive dealings with a joint tenancy require the concurrence of all joint tenants if they are to be effective. Thus a single joint tenant cannot exercise a break clause in a lease, surrender the term, make a disclaimer, exercise an option to renew the term or apply for relief from forfeiture."

                            If the fixed term tenancy comes to an end otherwise than by virtue of ... or "a surrender or other action on the part of the tenant", then a SPT will arise giving the tenant the entitlement to remain in possession under the same terms as before (except for any notice clauses).

                            Per Monk, during the SPT, the positive action by the tenant is the omission to give notice of termination by all joint tenants that "signifies the necessary positive assent to the extension of the term for a further period".

                            She can serve valid NTQ on 1st Dec to expire on 31st Jan.
                            Why 31 Jan, and not 1 Jan? A tenant NTQ can end on the first day of a period, and 1 Dec to 1 Jan is one month.
                            I am not a lawyer, nor am I licensed to provide any regulated advice. None of my posts should be treated as legal or financial advice.

                            I do not answer questions through private messages which should be posted publicly on the forum.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              I think I'm struggling with the idea that you can be forced into a new contract having said you don't want one

                              Comment

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