Landlord's sale jeopardised as old tenant won't leave

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    Landlord's sale jeopardised as old tenant won't leave

    Assured shorthold 6 months contract started on 5th March and being rolling over for the past two years or so to young couple that had a child whilst living in the flat.

    Sold the 1st floor flat to people living on ground floor and agreed on exchange date being 12th september.

    Handed over Notice section 21 to the tenants on 31st July 2007.

    Today: 4th Sept I was informed they have found no "suitable" accomodation and will not be out tomorrow.

    What is the scenario and what are the options ?

    Spoken to estate agents and solicitor but I feel no real will to assist on getting out of this situation. Solicitor 's only waiting to know whether to serve a court order or not. Agent will not assist finding an alternative flat as he fears taking on the tenants.
    I seem to have only the option - but not necessarely a winning one - to subsidise the tenants to move to another accomodation. But what if that i also a bluff ?

    I need advice quickly.
    Thanks in anticipation.

    regards

    Nino

    #2
    Do not exchange contracts unless and until flat is vacant.
    JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
    1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
    2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
    3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
    4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

    Comment


      #3
      Thanks Jeffrey. But can the completion date be move back of a week or two in agreement with the purchaser ?
      What s more the purchaser will themselves want to let so can a hand over of the tenant not be agreed ? I.e. he moves downstairs with a new contract starting a day after completion ?

      Nino

      Comment


        #4
        Originally posted by danglar View Post
        Thanks Jeffrey. But can the completion date be move back of a week or two in agreement with the purchaser ?
        What s more the purchaser will themselves want to let so can a hand over of the tenant not be agreed ? I.e. he moves downstairs with a new contract starting a day after completion ?

        Nino
        1. There is no (legally-binding) completion date until you exchange contracts. The contract stipulates the contractual date for completion.
        2. Before exchange, V and P can negotiate a suitable date convenient to both. Thereafter (i.e. once exchanged), it is messy to alter the completion date.
        3. Why cannot P buy the property with sitting tenant in situ?
        JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
        1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
        2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
        3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
        4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by danglar View Post
          Handed over Notice section 21 to the tenants on 31st July 2007.
          Which means you can't do anything for min 2 months. The notice (if correct and served properly) won't expire until 4 October.

          I seem to have only the option - but not necessarily a winning one - to subsidise the tenants to move to another accommodation. But what if that i also a bluff ?
          You do mean that it is not you who will be bluffing, I trust!

          You need a written surrender of tenancy from them, preferably independently witnessed. You could place your £1K, £2K or whatever in escrow with your lawyer - that will give them confidence to go for somewhere else.
          On some things I am very knowledgeable, on other things I am stupid. Trouble is, sometimes I discover that the former is the latter or vice versa, and I don't know this until later - maybe even much later. Because of the number of posts I have done, I am now a Senior Member. However, read anything I write with the above in mind.

          Comment


            #6
            Jeffrey, the tenant will not accept the new landlord terms as they are requesting a higher rent and unfortunately we are at the stage of completing the contract not simply exchanging it.

            Picking up on Esio Trot's reply: The notice was completed by the agency selling the flat on my behalf.
            The solicitor was the one they recommended. So does it mean that the agency should be aware the date agreed by the solicitor for completion was wrong, and likewise for the solicitor ?

            Nino

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by danglar View Post
              Jeffrey, the tenant will not accept the new landlord terms as they are requesting a higher rent and unfortunately we are at the stage of completing the contract not simply exchanging it.

              Picking up on Esio Trot's reply: The notice was completed by the agency selling the flat on my behalf.
              The solicitor was the one they recommended. So does it mean that the agency should be aware the date agreed by the solicitor for completion was wrong, and likewise for the solicitor ?

              Nino
              The completion date is not "wrong" but, instead, unworkable if - on that date - your tenants will be still in place yet you will have become obliged to deliver a vacant property.
              JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
              1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
              2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
              3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
              4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                The completion date is not "wrong" but, instead, unworkable if - on that date - your tenants will be still in place yet you will have become obliged to deliver a vacant property.

                Jeffrey, I hope not to upset you but I detect a diplomatic answer here from you.

                The agents and solicitor should work in unison and if one of their actions - is "unworkable" and the other one does not pick up on it and rectifies, to me it smacks of ....sloppiness.

                Nino

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by danglar View Post
                  Jeffrey, I hope not to upset you but I detect a diplomatic answer here from you.

                  The agents and solicitor should work in unison and if one of their actions - is "unworkable" and the other one does not pick up on it and rectifies, to me it smacks of ....sloppiness.

                  Nino
                  Yes: not only that but, really, it should be you + solicitors working in unison.
                  You are the customer; the customer is always right; and the agents have no function in this context.
                  JEFFREY SHAW, solicitor [and Topic Expert], Nether Edge Law*
                  1. Public advice is believed accurate, but I accept no legal responsibility except to direct-paying private clients.
                  2. Telephone advice: see http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=34638.
                  3. For paid advice about conveyancing/leaseholds/L&T, contact me* and become a private client.
                  4. *- Contact info: click on my name (blue-highlight link).

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jeffrey View Post
                    Yes: not only that but, really, it should be you + solicitors working in unison.
                    You are the customer; the customer is always right; and the agents have no function in this context.
                    And how I am to know ?

                    Anyway I want to leave this and return to the main issue as I have been receiving calls all afternoon.

                    According to the purchaser's solicitor there wont be a problem moving completion to a later date , subject to the payment of a small fee.

                    I have had conversation with the tenant and even offered him to subsidise his rent if he moves to the flat downstairs.
                    This seems to have had somehow a bite on his pride , I hope an trust .
                    Later I answered a call from a woman who claimed to be checking on their references for her flat. Hopefully they should now be able to move this Saturday. But as the original completion date is Wednesday 12th are 24hrs sufficient notice to move the completion date IF the tenants still cannot get into the accomodation ?

                    Nino

                    Comment


                      #11
                      The solicitors are not clairvoyants. They do not visit the property. It is up to you to tell them that it is not vacant.
                      The contents of this note are neither advice nor a definitive answer. If you plan to rely on this, you should pay somebody for proper advice.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by Grange View Post
                        The solicitors are not clairvoyants. They do not visit the property. It is up to you to tell them that it is not vacant.

                        I d rather not answer those who quickly round up to defend their ..colleagues.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by Esio Trot View Post
                          Which means you can't do anything for min 2 months. The notice (if correct and served properly) won't expire until 4 October.

                          You need a written surrender of tenancy from them, preferably independently witnessed. You could place your £1K, £2K or whatever in escrow with your lawyer - that will give them confidence to go for somewhere else.

                          MY solicitor today told me this arrangement is illegal and would not work. But then who can tell , eh ? It seem the law is open to free interpretation these days !

                          Comment


                            #14
                            Originally posted by danglar View Post
                            Assured shorthold 6 months contract started on 5th March and being rolling over for the past two years or so to young couple that had a child whilst living in the flat.

                            Sold the 1st floor flat to people living on ground floor and agreed on exchange date being 12th september.

                            Handed over Notice section 21 to the tenants on 31st July 2007.

                            Today: 4th Sept I was informed they have found no "suitable" accomodation and will not be out tomorrow.

                            What is the scenario and what are the options ?

                            Spoken to estate agents and solicitor but I feel no real will to assist on getting out of this situation. Solicitor 's only waiting to know whether to serve a court order or not. Agent will not assist finding an alternative flat as he fears taking on the tenants.
                            I seem to have only the option - but not necessarely a winning one - to subsidise the tenants to move to another accomodation. But what if that i also a bluff ?

                            I need advice quickly.
                            Thanks in anticipation.

                            regards

                            Nino

                            What is the difference between a Section 20 and a Section 21 ?
                            The Estate Agents claim they use the Section 20 , the solicitor told me it is the wrong Notice but I find it rather strange that an Estate/Accomodation Agency would be ignorant of the difference and be handing out the wrong Notice . Come on !

                            Nino

                            Comment


                              #15
                              Originally posted by danglar View Post
                              What is the difference between a Section 20 and a Section 21 ?
                              The Estate Agents claim they use the Section 20 , the solicitor told me it is the wrong Notice but I find it rather strange that an Estate/Accomodation Agency would be ignorant of the difference and be handing out the wrong Notice . Come on !

                              Nino
                              Strange, but seem's to be true.

                              You need a S.21 notice.

                              Comment

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