why judge require grounds for possession?

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    why judge require grounds for possession?

    Hi All:

    Another landlord is facing rogue tenants.

    We provided them section 21 initially because by that time we wouldn't be able to provide them with section 8. Then, they started not paying our rent, so we took them to the court.
    At the first hearing, they turned up, but without an interpreter and they can not speak English or pretend to, so it was re-scheduled TWO MONTHS after.
    At the second hearing, we hoped that judge would give possession order, however, the judge went straight way to solve the rent arrear problems and she wanted to adjourned the hearing.
    Then we stated that the main purpose of hearing is to re-possess the property.
    However, the judge looked very confused and went through the paperwork asking us to provide grounds for possession.
    After we have got dismiss, I am so confused that we gave them section 21, so we can evict the tenant without any reason.
    I want to know why the judge wanted us to provide grounds?

    Thanks everyone,

    #2
    Given s8 can be given if only 1p is unpaid for only 1 day am I wrong to suspect you could have served s8 ? (G10).

    Where did you get the legal expertise to handle the matter on you own,
    I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

    Comment


      #3
      What procedure are you using?

      I think your issue is with the court paperwork you submitted.

      Comment


        #4
        Thanks for your reply,

        We initially had short assured tenancy agreement, but it expired two years ago. I think we are on periodic tenancy. And I am going through the standed possession order, not the accelerated one.

        I checked my application again, and it was clearly stated on the form that a notice seeking possession is given, and we also stated that we want the property back for own residential.

        Comment


          #5
          Short Assured Tenancy? Are you in Scotland?

          Comment


            #6
            Thank you for your reply,

            I gave them section 21 notice first, and then they stopped paying rents. If I gave them another section 8 notice meaning we have to wait for at least two months.

            I hired one solicitor, a friend of friends, but at the hearing, when we were asked to provide grounds, the judge said your solicitor should know this, if not it is better to seek legal advise somewhere else.
            So, it seems like I have got trouble with the solicitor as well.

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by Sz0 View Post
              We provided them section 21 initially because by that time we wouldn't be able to provide them with section 8.
              When did the tenancy begin and was there a fixed term. When did you serve s21 Notice?

              Then, they started not paying our rent, so we took them to the court.
              Under what section did you commence proceedings?

              However, the judge looked very confused and went through the paperwork asking us to provide grounds for possession.
              After we have got dismiss ...
              It sounds as though the Judge believed you had made a s8 application, but offered no evidence of fault. Otherwise, if your application was dismissed, you'd got something very wrong.

              Comment


                #8
                We are on periodic tenancy now I think, as we haven't re-signed the short assured tenancy.
                I am in England.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by Sz0 View Post
                  And I am going through the standed possession order, not the accelerated one.
                  So you must have filled form N5 to bring the claim. The form has a section "Grounds for possession", what did you put?

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Thank you,

                    I agree with you that the judge though I had made a section 8 application.
                    When I said dismissed, I meant after I left the court. The judge had adjourned the hearing to two months later (late November) and asked as to provide supplement documents stating the grounds for possession.
                    It was too late when I realised, I should remind the judge at the hearing?
                    In the application form, it was notice seeking possession, although I also mentioned that they are in rent arrear. BUT, I gave them section 21 notice, not section 8, why is she taking this wrong.

                    I am very confused, for section 21 notice I gave the tenant, there were no grounds for it?
                    If I do provide grounds, then it is likely the judge will dismiss this case and ask us to re-start the procedure because we gave the wrong notice? I am not sure.

                    Thank you,

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Originally posted by emwithme View Post
                      Short Assured Tenancy? Are you in Scotland?
                      What emwithme said....

                      Have you served s8s also?? If so what grounds? Sounds like this "friend of friend" has let you down, suggest you find another solicitor who is expert in landlord/tenant law: Normally for s21 there is no hearing, only paperwork examination by judge in private: Sounds like the paperwork was not up to scratch.

                      Good news is eventually any landlord can evict a genuine AST with s21.

                      But is your property in Scotland?
                      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                      Comment


                        #12
                        In the N5 form, under the section "Grounds for possession", I/ the solicitor ticked 'rent arrears'. Should I/ solicitor also state that the property is possessed for own residence? or provide other reasons here?
                        In the form Particulars of claim for possession (n119?), the reason the claimant is asking for possession is:
                        a) because the defendant has not paid the rent
                        b) because the defendant has failed to comply with other terms of the tenancy.
                        Then, under the claimant section,
                        the claimant is asking the court to take the following financial or other information into account when making it decision whether or not to grant an order for possession;
                        I stated "the claimants themselves want to possess the property for own residence".

                        Thanks for your reply

                        Comment


                          #13
                          ... and you avoided the application being dismissed? I'm amazed.

                          Comment


                            #14
                            You have grounds to complain to your solicitor and to seek compensation from him, I think.

                            The 'rent arrears' and 'breach of terms' grounds require a section 8 notice. If you served a s.21 notice then the form was incorrectly filled in.

                            Comment


                              #15
                              If fault-based grounds are being cited, the application is bound to be dismissed once it is clear to Judge that Form 3 has not been served. Discontinue and start again.

                              Comment

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