Section 21(1)(b)

[MrWoof]

I have the 'question time' answers pasted into a file and I have been following recent threads but there is one thing that is still confusing me. Am I correct in thinking that if I serve an S21 during the initial term, it must be S21 (1)(b) and the repossession date can be any date more than two months ahead and after the end of the initial term, to exaggerate, six months after the end of the initial term?

[Andy Parker]

I would say that's OK but your tenant can give you a month's notice after the fixed term.

[MrWoof]

Thanks for that, the situation hasn't arisen but it was something that was bugging me.

[Andy Parker]

I have just remembered an old thread on this topic.If memory serves me right lawstudent and others agreed that the tenant need not give any notice after the fixed period if a section 21 had already been served.

[dazalock]

Is it me or have we lost loads of threads?

[MrWoof]

I'm inclined to agree, what has happened to posts between 16th May and 17th July? That said, we seem to have lost this thread as well. I was asking about an S21 from the landlord, not tenant's notice.

[dazalock]

I think it was this thread http://www.landlordzone.co.uk/forums...8&page=1&pp=10

Ahhhh the good old days ...........

[PaulF]

The correct answers are:

1. Only the landlord can serve a S.21 (1)(b) notice during the fixed term to end the AST (the tenant doesn't need to serve any Notice - see below - and in any event can't serve a S.21 (1)(b) which is the exclusive domain of the landlord). Even if the Notice does not expire until well after the end of the fixed term the tenant can still vacate the property at the end of the fixed term, or at anytime before the Notice becomes effective even if the AST has gone beyond the fixed term, and without the tenant having to give the landlord any prior notice. I'll give you an example:-
   
   Tenant takes 6 months fixed term AST on 15 January. Landlord serves S.21(1)(b) Notice on the tenant on 25 May to end the tenancy on 8 October (remember it doesn't have to end at the end of a rent period as the Notice has been served during the fixed term and the minimum of 2 months notice has been satisfied). Tenant can therefore move at anytime after 14 July until 8 October without having to let the landlord formally know when he is vacating, although in practice he probably will.
2. Both landlord & tenant need to give notice if the AST becomes periodic; landlord at least 2 months but tenant only one month if it's a monthly periodic or 4 weeks if its a weekly periodic, and each of these notices does have to be effective to end at the end of a rent period.

[lawstudent]

Both landlord & tenant need to give notice if the AST becomes periodic; landlord at least 2 months but tenant only one month if it's a monthly periodic or 4 weeks if its a weekly periodic, and each of these notices does have to be effective to end at the end of a rent period.

I've seen this kind of thing claimed before about the length of notice tenants are required to give, but have never seen any justification for it. Can anyone please say where these figures come from.

[mjpl]

Housing Act 1988. Effective from Jan 15th 1989.

[lawstudent]

mjpl - where in the 1988 Housing Act does it say this?

[Energise]

Section 5 Housing Act 1988

[lawstudent]

There is nothing about this in Section 5, Energise.

[mjpl]

Perhaps it is in Section 21

[Energise]

There is nothing about this in Section 5, Energise.

5 (3) (e) under which, subject to the following provisions of this Part of this Act, the other terms are the same as those of the fixed term tenancy immediately before it came to an end, except that any term which makes provision for determination by the landlord or the tenant shall not have effect while the tenancy remains an assured tenancy.



Painsmiths interpretation of section 5 (3) (e)

"Section 5 of the Housing Act 1988 which clearly states that any clause in a fixed term Assured Shorthold Tenancy which makes provision for determining the tenancy shall not have effect once the tenancy becomes periodic. The notice clause will therefore be void. This means that the Tenant effectively renews his contract from month to month by paying rent on the rent due date. This binds him for the whole period, that is one month, with no requirement to give any notice to the Landlord or his Agent."

It would seem that a tenant has to give no notice at all during a Statutory periodic.

(would not apply to a contractual periodic)