Is my section 21 invalid? Conflicts with my TA and the new laws

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    Is my section 21 invalid? Conflicts with my TA and the new laws

    Q1 - Where is the rented property located (England / Wales / Scotland / N Ireland)?
    England

    Q2 – What type of Tenancy Agreement (TA) is this e.g. sole tenant / multiple tenant / room only?
    12 month AST with 1 main tenant and one permitted occupier

    Q3 – What date did current TA start dd/mm/yy?
    Signed and took the keys 17th of July 2015

    Q4 – How long was initial fixed term (6/12/24 months / other)?
    12 months with a 6 month break clause

    Q5 – Does the TA state that rent is due weekly? / 4-weekly? / per calendar month (if so, on what same date each month)?
    Per calendar month on the 24th

    Q6 – Did the TA require a tenant damage deposit to be paid? If so, on what date was this paid (dd/mm/yy)?
    Yes 17th July 2015

    Q7 – If your query relates to a notice for repossession from the landlord (a Section 8 or Section 21 notice) or a tenants's notice to quit to the landlord, please provide the exact date the notice was sent/received (dd/mm/yy).
    13th of June 2016 - dated for 17th of June to expire on the 17th of August 2016

    Q8 – Does the landlord live in the same property as the tenant?
    No

    Hi Everyone. I am looking for some advice on whether the section 21 notice could be deemed invalid. I got the keys on July 17th 2015 and paid a deposit and one weeks rent, then on the 24th of July paid the first months rent. The rent due date has been the 24th for the last 11 months. I am aware of the new laws but unsure as to what applies to myself as the tenancy began before October.
    Key Thing - my lease agreement has a clause which states that 2 months notice is required either from the LL or from myself, which must be in line with the rental period.

    Would this clause be enough to make the section 21 invalid? As even though now after the latest case it is clear that a S21 can be served any date as long as its 8 weeks notice.. I am struggling to find out how 'set in stone' my TA clauses are and if I could hold them to this!

    Many thanks in advance

    #2
    A Sec 21 need only give 2 months notice.
    The new laws would not apply to your tenancy.

    Was your deposit protected correctly?

    Why are you fighting the Sec 21, and not moving on?
    Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

    Comment


      #3
      What date does the tenancy agreement say the tenancy starts on?
      How does the tenancy agreement define the tenancy periods?

      There's usually a single sentence or paragraph that will encompass the key dates of the tenancy (the rental due dates are not part of the definition of the rental period)
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #4
        TheSaint
        Hi, the deposit was protected swiftly and correctly with the DPS. I have moved 4 times in under 3 years, this will be the 5th. Prior to this, I lived in a property as a tenant for 9 years. Each time I have had a 6 month AST the owners have suddenly decided to sell up, one wanted a family member to move in and another served notice because I complained about having no heating or hot water for 3 months. I still left each property on time and received my deposits back in full - told I was a good tenant etc. The financial strain is just at rock bottom now though, I am unable to find the £2500 to £3000 necessary to move within just 8 weeks. I live in an area with very high rent - paying £1100 now for a very old, 2 bed bungalow. I spent my own money on painting in neutral colors for them, doing the doors, skirtings, new bathroom flooring. I have no savings, work full time and now support my 23 year old daughter who has had to leave university and lives with me, due to cancer treatment.

        I would be in a much better position to leave, if I had more notice and more time to raise the funds. I would never normally intend to delay leaving, I respect others and the personal circumstances they have which is probably why I am where I am now lol. The 11 months so far have not been great either but I needed to stay and be somewhat stable, letting agents are very slow and the landlord is a first timer - she says she finds the whole thing too much a headache even though it is fully managed - we have had an ongoing issue with the built in oven/stove its been out of action for 5 months. It is 18 years old and missing all sorts of parts. The house is paid for, it was inherited along with 2 other properties.

        JP
        It states tenancy began on the 17th and underneath that, the rent due date is the 24th. This is in the agreement in a table form rather than sentences or a clause. Our previous LL wanted their property back by the 20th and were very forceful so we had to take the keys on the 17th and paid 7 days rent in cash plus 6 weeks deposit, with a standing order set for the 24th.
        The clause regarding notice to vacate states:
        "...it is mutually agreed by the landlord and the tenant that they shall have the right to terminate this agreement at any time thereafter (after the 6 month break clause) by giving to the other at least two months notice in writing of their intention to do so, such notice to expire on the last day of a rental period."

        Comment


          #5
          The law will take precedence, and it allows for 2 month's minimum notice.

          Conversely, you don't have to leave when it expires, and the landlord will have to go to court to compel you to leave.
          You will incur costs (£300 plus) if they do, but it will take several weeks/months.

          However you are going to have to leave eventually.

          Is it possible to negotiate with the landlord so you leave in (say) four months, saving the court route. You'd agree to serve notice yourself (which is more rapidly enforceable, if you fail to honour it, which of course you won't).
          Gives you more time and everyone knows where they are.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #6
            I thought so too which is what I was dreading! I am getting in touch with several others just to be sure too.

            I have tried to negotiate with them or just appeal to their better nature by asking for an extension to October but they don't want to budge not even by 2 weeks so that I will have been paid and could afford the advance rent on a new property. I was homeless previously in 2014 for 3 and a half weeks, I left the property on time without a new one being ready for me! I was intimidated once a day, to leave for over a week. I won't do that again.

            I suppose I may just have to hope for the best and see what happens. Thanks for your 2 cents JP I appreciate it

            Comment


              #7
              If you have built up a good reputation as a tenant then I would suggest that this is more valuable to you than a few extra weeks at your current home against your landlords wishes. It may not seem fair but that reputation could be lost in an instant with a bad reference and you will then find it very difficult indeed to secure a long term tenancy

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by Lissarose View Post
                I have tried to negotiate with them or just appeal to their better nature by asking for an extension to October but they don't want to budge not even by 2 weeks so that I will have been paid and could afford the advance rent on a new property. I was homeless previously in 2014 for 3 and a half weeks, I left the property on time without a new one being ready for me! I was intimidated once a day, to leave for over a week. I won't do that again.t
                October might be pushing it, but I would probably make the point that if you decline to leave (which you are entitled to do - it's not illegal, just very annoying) you'll be there well past October.
                Confirm that you'll continue to pay rent while you're there.
                Your offer is a good one, but it's possible that the landlord doesn't understand their position - many are surprised when they find out that a s21 notice isn't as powerful as they imagined.

                If you contact your local housing department, they will (almost certainly) tell you to wait until a court has confirmed the notice is valid, so what I am suggesting is hardly uncommon.

                It will seriously hack off your landlord and DPT57's point about a reference is a good one.

                Have you checked that everything else on the s21 is correct, they're easy to get wrong?
                When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                Comment


                  #9
                  Yes of course, I understand that and I am fully aware of the possible consequences. There is a letting agency between us but I have had some contact with the owner and her husband. They have said that they believe I am a great example of the "perfect" tenant which I believe I have been! Nothing in life is fair, well aware of that and I would never stay without their permission. If they said 100% after the S21 expires, that I must be out at a certain time and not be willing to budge at all then I would go - but I cannot do that this time around with my daughter being unwell.

                  In my previous post where I said that I was intimidated for a week, I actually had their permission to stay until the 21st of October 2014 and from around the 25th of June they were hassling me to leave, letting themselves in even though the rent was paid to the 21st and they had proof that I had another property lined up, they continued on and even tried to change the locks and throw my things out. Luckily I had gotten rid of everything besides our 2 beds and a suitcase each plus a couple of boxes! My daughter and I stayed in my vehicle for over a week of the 3 and a half weeks we were homeless. You never realise just how easy it is to end up in that position.

                  I should mention that I have not been in receipt of any benefits and worked full time since my daughter was 18 months old! All of my properties have been privately rented and when I have contacted the local council in the last 3 years they have been of no help at all, I wouldn't expect them to 'help' anyway nor do I feel entitled to anything, nothing in life is free or easy!

                  References though are important, couldn't rent without it. Facing quite the predicament!

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    Have you checked that everything else on the s21 is correct, they're easy to get wrong?
                    Everything is correct yes, the housing act etc and address. I have been told that generally it takes more than 8 weeks for an eviction to take place, feel as though with my luck it would happen quicker lol. I wouldn't want them to apply to court, if that were to happen I would feel too far too uneasy to stay even with the rent being paid.

                    I might ask them if they could at the least, change the notice from the 17th to the 24th or 26th even to allow me to pay advance rent and pick up keys for a new home on the 24th. Then I have 2 days to move out and clean. This is inevitable anyway even if they choose to say no - I won't be able to find the advance rent before the 17th for a new property! Id need to find one available on the 14th or 15th of the month which is unusual. They know I would pay every single days rent, I haven't been late or missed any payments throughout my life.

                    I feel absolutely awful that I am even considering overstaying my welcome! But there really is no other option for me, I do not have a partner or other family members, no siblings or parents. Its just me and my daughter. I know it must be a very frustrating thing for landlords who have been good to their tenants and followed the rules by the book even though this lady hasn't! On occasion when I get frustrated over it, I wish they could be in my shoes or try to understand from my perspective.. especially when I was homeless, that property was simply an investment and they wanted me out for making a single complaint. Regardless, I have had far worse experiences than here.

                    I just dread moving and finding that the new place or LL is worse than the last! Eeek!

                    Comment


                      #11
                      However you feel about the situation, a section 21 notice doesn't end your tenancy and you are perfectly entitled to stay after it expires.

                      That might be frustrating for your landlord (it would certainly annoy me), but it is a fact and there's nothing they can do about it.
                      You get frustrated by landlord's who ask you to leave, landlords get frustrated that the process is more protracted than they would like.

                      All the expiry of the notice means is that the landlord can move to the next part of the process, that's all.
                      That's really why they're daft not to negotiate - they can't get what they want anyway.
                      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                      Comment

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