Tenant wants to renew for up to 18m - should I?

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    #31
    Hmmm....(scratching my head)... the 6m AST Fixed term will end in late June... so you're saying I could end up signing up to a 18m periodic tenancy (tenant 1m notice and LL 2m notice) instead of 18m fixed term - if the wording is incorrect? Even if he pays upfront?

    Meaning tenant could provide 1m notice and leave before the 18m? (bit silly to do that as he will have to get his money back?)

    Comment


      #32
      No.
      I mean in 18 months time, if they don't move out, or agree another agreement, the periodic tenancy that is created (like the one you are trying to avoid with this new agreement) might last 18 months.

      I.e. it would be rolling 18 monthly tenancy not a rolling monthly tenancy.
      When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
      Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

      Comment


        #33
        Huh really? If worded incorrectly it would be another 18m tenancy, as opposed to going month-to-month at the end of the first 18m.

        In the payment section, the old 6m AST said...

        "Payment: The initial first six months’ rent of £XX.XX and the deposit of £XX.XX must be paid directly to the Landlords agent XXAgent NameXX limited of XXAddressXX, the total amount of £XX.XX being due on or before XXtenancy beginning dateXX and to be paid by direct bank transfer to Name: XXXAgent Client Account Bank Number & Address XXXX"

        Any ideas what the new one should say?

        Comment


          #34
          Legal drafting isn't my strength, others may want to chip in here.

          That wording isn't particularly helpful, although it's hard to tell in isolation - if there's another section that defines the rent as £xx pcm, so it's clear that the initial first six months' rent is £xx multiplied by 6 it would be useful.

          It's hard to be certain what the "initial first six months' rent" means.
          As one of those adjectives is probably spurious.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #35
            Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
            The client account should be completely separate from the business's trading account.
            "Should be" is the operative word here.
            I'd get in touch and ask them to transfer it as a special case (you might find they have a daily limit per account).
            Got distracted - however wanted to return to this advice. Am not getting much response from the Letting Agency and they have £20k+ of tenants money transferred to them.

            I am getting nervous as they are not very responsive to simple questions regarding when they will send the funds to me.

            In terms of email evidence - they have an email from me indicating that I want them to drawn up an AST for 18m with the monthly rate. They have emailed me and the tenant to confirm receiving full funds from the tenant.

            If they issue AST contract to me and him - should I sign not knowing if and when I will get the tenants funds from them?

            Where do I stand on this front? Is there any AST contract if I do not sign? (thus does the present AST just go periodic?) Can I request funds transfer and then sign the AST? If the Letting Agency are a pain - can I ask them to send the funds back to the tenant and deal with other agent or directly with the tenant instead?

            .. just wanted to be clear when the tenancy contract is formed? - him signing the 18m AST? him sending the money to a Letting Agent? me signing the AST as well?

            As if I am unsure if I am going to get these funds from the Letting Agency - I will need to pull out and not go through them.

            Comment


              #36
              Keep the two issues separate.
              You need to get your money from the letting agent.
              The tenant's paid you the rent (because the letting agent is your agent, and so the money is your issue not the tenant's).
              So if you don't get the money from the agent, you've lost it, not the tenant.

              I'd stop emailing and call them up or go and visit (watch them transfer it or get a cheque).

              The current tenancy will simply become periodic if no new agreement is signed.
              The new tenancy contract is formed when you or your agent and the tenant agreed to it (so there's a verbal agreement already in place).
              The formal written contract will be formed when the tenant signs the agreement that your agent sends out.
              When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
              Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

              Comment


                #37
                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                Keep the two issues separate.
                You need to get your money from the letting agent.
                The tenant's paid you the rent (because the letting agent is your agent, and so the money is your issue not the tenant's).
                So if you don't get the money from the agent, you've lost it, not the tenant.
                I'd stop emailing and call them up or go and visit (watch them transfer it or get a cheque).
                God, this is all I need. They barely answer the phone and its not possible to visit. Should I send them something written to make it clear that I do not want them to act on my behalf unless there is clarity about the funds before an AST is signed? I also do not want them to send out an agreement to the tenant until I have reviewed the AST (due to the issues highlighted earlier in this thread). As a sidenote: the tenant and I have agreed to split the £100 agency renewal fee (he send them +£50 when he sent his money - and thus I am not sure if this now means they are acting under our both instructions?)


                Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                The current tenancy will simply become periodic if no new agreement is signed.
                The new tenancy contract is formed when you or your agent and the tenant agreed to it (so there's a verbal agreement already in place).
                The formal written contract will be formed when the tenant signs the agreement that your agent sends out.
                As per above should I be taking some kind of written action to withdraw (disinstruct) now (before the AST is formed or signed) unless clarity is provided about the funds transfer (the Agency could otherwise sign/witness on my behalf the AST).

                If I do this, the tenancy will auto go periodic, the tenant can then get his money back from the agency, and I can then pick up with the tenant to form a new AST with another reliable agency.

                Comment


                  #38
                  Yes, write and tell them what you want them to do about the tenancy agreement.
                  But make sure you get your money as a priority.

                  Being realistic, it is unlikely that you can simply retain another agent to take over management without the current agent's agreement or paying them a fee.
                  Check your agreement with the agent - I have never seen an agency agreement that allowed what you propose.
                  When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
                  Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

                  Comment


                    #39
                    Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                    Yes, write and tell them what you want them to do about the tenancy agreement.
                    But make sure you get your money as a priority.
                    Being realistic, it is unlikely that you can simply retain another agent to take over management without the current agent's agreement or paying them a fee.
                    Check your agreement with the agent - I have never seen an agency agreement that allowed what you propose.
                    Thanks. It was a Let-only agreement with the agency on the last 6m AST. They were not "managing" the property. The just offered to do this renewal documentation for a flat fee (this offer was sent via email y them). The tenant has sent all the money upfront to them though as he was in a rush due to travel.

                    Comment


                      #40
                      Update...update... update....

                      Just managed to get through to them on phone and got confirmation that they will be sending full funds through this afternoon.

                      Lets hope that happens.

                      Comment


                        #41
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        You want the tenancy agreement to document quite clearly that rent has been paid in advance, because it's a problem if it could be seen as a deposit against future rent rather than rent itself. Unless the wording is correct, the periodic tenancy that would arise after the end of the fixed term could be an 18 monthly periodic tenancy, because the period of the tenancy is set by the last rental payment of the previous tenancy. So you want it to be really clear that the tenant has paid 18 lots of a month's rent in advance, and that it's not a deposit.
                        Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
                        Legal drafting isn't my strength, others may want to chip in here.
                        That wording isn't particularly helpful, although it's hard to tell in isolation - if there's another section that defines the rent as £xx pcm, so it's clear that the initial first six months' rent is £xx multiplied by 6 it would be useful. It's hard to be certain what the "initial first six months' rent" means. As one of those adjectives is probably spurious.
                        Thanks for your advice. Tenants have paid their 18m and the Letting Agency has forwarded the funds. Just a case of getting a 18m AST to them.

                        Below is the tenancy agreement page 1.

                        You think this is reasonably clear enough to avoid the above concerns?

                        Write back if you have time as will need to get it signed and sent back tomorrow.





                        Any advice always appreciated.

                        Comment

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