gas cert and management co questions

[overweightlemon]

We have a property, currently let to an agency. They in turn sub let it and manage it. We've no direct contact with the occupant.

For approximately 2 months up to the expiry of the gas cert, we were reminding the tenant company that they needed to book an appointment that was convenient for their tenant. They repeatedly assured us they would, but didn't. Knowing the lead time for appointments was a week, we phoned British Gas 7 days prior to expiry and asked whether an appointment had been made - no. We made an appointment there and then and told the agency when it would be. I phoned the agency and spoke with the manager who said they would sort something out, even if it meant one of their staff going over. They said they could do with 30 minutes notice, I said that BG don't offer 30 minutes notice, you get a 6 hour slot and that's your lot. (Amazing that they wouldn't know this already, given that they manage hundreds of properties.) They eventually confirmed they had arranged that their tenant be in.

Got a call from British gas, no one in, no answer on the mobile number given by the agency. Rang the agency landline and asked why they hadn't sorted it, and they said they hadn't had a 30 minute notice call. I was very cross, feeling that I give up a large chunk of money for management each month only to have completely ineffective management. I got permission to leave work and meet the engineer ten minutes later(having pleaded witht the engineer to wait for me), and one of the agency staff arrived fifteen minutes after me to take over, but had I not gone out the engineer wouldn't have waited 25 minutes for the agency to show up..

So, questions are.. Had I not been able to salvage the situation and get the cert renewed, what happens from a legal perspective? Who is liable to whom in a situation where despite the main landlords best efforts, the tenant and sub tenant have frustrated the gas cert renewal to a point where it didn't happen? Who is breaking the law?

Should I be kicking up a fuss with the management company and seeking some form of compensation or refund of management fee for a situation like this?

[theartfullodger]

Did you use their tenancy agreement between you & agency? When does it end?

Give notice to quit under the terms of the contract to your tenant, the agent. Once through the courts you will become landlord of occupants.

Is this a guaranteed rent scheme/scam?

Do your mortgage & insurance cover letting not under AST? Most don't.....

Suspect both landlords - you and agent - may be liable for GSC but not entirely confident if you currently are.

[Hippogriff]

You shouldn't be worrying about who is liable, legally.

It's a past issue.

You've resolved it, unhappily admittedly.

What you need to be worrying about is what happens next year and any other time this kind of thing happens... and the answer to your concern is a simple one - take back your property and place it with someone you have confidence in.

You don't mess with gas, or water.

[theartfullodger]

There are two landlords: overweight of agent (as tenant), and agent of occupants (as tenants). Don't think agent is a licensor (?).

Think both landlords are responsible for ensuring there is a GSC:
See
s36 The Gas Safety (Installation and Use) Regulations 1998
http://www.legislation.gov.uk/uksi/1...lation/36/made

Duties of Landlords

36.—(1) In this regulation—

“landlord” means—
(a) in England and Wales—
(i) where the relevant premises are occupied under a lease, the person for the time being entitled to the reversion expectant on that lease or who, apart from any statutory tenancy, would be entitled to possession of the premises; and
(ii) where the relevant premises are occupied under a licence, the licensor, save that where the licensor is himself a tenant in respect of those premises, it means the person referred to in paragraph (i) above;
...
etc etc etc...
...
(4) Every landlord shall ensure that any work in relation to a relevant gas fitting or any check of a gas appliance or flue carried out pursuant to paragraphs (2) or (3) above is carried out by, or by an employee of, a member of a class of persons approved for the time being by the Health and Safety Executive for the purposes of regulation 3(3) of these Regulations.

What does the tenancy agreement say on the subject of GSC? What does the tenancy state on refunds and compo?

Suspect the usual arrangement would be that the agent sorts this, but perhaps other members who have sub-letting agents as tenants might comment.

[thesaint]

I as an agent don't stake out a property for 6 hours for something as routine as a gas cert.
In future use a 21st century company that can give you a reasonable window. There are plenty of them out there.

[Hippogriff]

It's a very good point. It's disheartening when someone can't give a short window, just a day or morning or afternoon. Most companies I deal with can at least offer a call 30 minutes before arrival if they can't offer a time window. If British Gas are unable to do that, then maybe there's another option. They'll learn soon enough...