No mention of s8 in AST

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    No mention of s8 in AST

    I have bought an AST template for use in England from a reputable source which claims to be an up to date version, so I felt confident using it recently for a tenancy beginning 9 May 2016 6 months term. However I am not sure if I have dropped a clanger changing to this AST and would be grateful if someone could offer their opinion on the following:

    Agreement states:
    "When we refer in this agreement to the fixed term, we mean the period of time given above. When we refer to the term, we mean all the time you live in the Property (which will often be longer than just the fixed term) up until one of the following occurs:
    * you give notice that you want to end the agreement; or
    * we serve a notice on you under section 21 of the Housing Act 1988; or
    * we enter into a new written agreement with you; or
    * this agreement is ended by consent or a court order"

    As you can see, only s21 is mentioned above, there is no mention of s8. Does it mean that an application under s8 would be unsuccessful, because it is not mentioned in the AST? I read somewhere that grounds need to be mentioned.

    As always, your thoughts would be very much appreciated.

    #2
    Ah, that'll be one of those tenancy agreements written by lefties who disagree with the whole concept of private letting. Don't use it.

    That said, I would never use a section 8, so maybe you're not much worse off.
    To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

    Comment


      #3
      Sometimes, the clause you need states something along the lines of "Ground 2 of the 1988 Housing Act".
      Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

      Comment


        #4
        The only issue with referencing s8 or not is whether a s8 notice can be used in the fixed term.
        The legislation will override any mention or absence or attempt to exclude it.
        When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
        Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

        Comment


          #5
          Originally posted by jpkeates View Post
          The only issue with referencing s8 or not is whether a s8 notice can be used in the fixed term.
          The legislation will override any mention or absence or attempt to exclude it.
          Does this enable me to apply for an s8 during the fixed term: AST states: "if you do not pay the rent ..... circumstances mentioned in the grounds for possession set out in part II of schedule 2 and in schedule 2a of the housing act 1988 arise, we can repossess ....

          Comment


            #6
            Originally posted by LandlordAngel View Post
            Does this enable me to apply for an s8 during the fixed term: AST states: "if you do not pay the rent ..... circumstances mentioned in the grounds for possession set out in part II of schedule 2 and in schedule 2a of the housing act 1988 arise, we can repossess ....
            Sorry, that was what I was referring to earlier, not "Ground 2".
            You are good-to-go with a Sec 8.
            Allow tenants to protect their own deposits. I want free money when they do it wrong

            Comment


              #7
              Originally posted by LandlordAngel View Post
              I have bought an AST template for use in England from a reputable source which claims to be an up to date version, so I felt confident using it recently .......
              Aye, right... (Scots usage, 2 positives making a negative.....)

              What did you have against the **free** version from Dave??
              https://www.gov.uk/government/public...ssured-tenancy

              - which includes this...
              1 LANDLORD’S STATUTORY GROUNDS (REASONS) FOR POSSESSION DURING THE FIXED TERM

              1.1 If any of the grounds (reasons) specified in clause E1.2 apply, the Landlord
              may seek to repossess the Property (sometimes referred to as forfeiture and
              re-entry) during the fixed term by giving the Tenant notice under section 8 of
              the Housing Act 1988 of his intention to apply to court for possession and,
              subsequently, applying to the court for a possession order.

              1.2 The grounds referred to in clause E1.1 are the following grounds which are
              contained in Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988:

              Ground 2 (mortgagee (lender) entitled to possession);
              Ground 8 (at least 8 weeks’ or two months’ rent arrears);
              Ground 10 (some rent overdue);
              Ground 11 (tenant persistently late in paying rent);
              Ground 12 (breach of any term(s) of tenancy agreement);
              Ground 13 (condition of property or common parts has deteriorated due to acts
              etc. of tenant or other occupant);
              Ground 14 (the tenant or other person residing in or visiting the property is
              guilty of nuisance / annoyance in the locality or convicted of a criminal offence
              in relation to the property or committed in the locality);
              Ground 15 (condition of furniture provided under the tenancy agreement has
              deteriorated due to ill-treatment by tenant or other occupant); and
              Ground 17 (landlord was induced to grant the tenancy by a false statement
              made knowingly or recklessly by the tenant or a person acting on the tenant’s
              behalf).

              ....
              Guidance Note: Landlord’s ground (reasons) for possession during the fixed term. Grounds 2 and 8 are mandatory grounds - i.e. grounds on which the
              court must order possession – the other grounds listed are discretionary grounds - i.e. grounds on which the court may order possession. To see the grounds in full look at Schedule 2 to the Housing Act 1988 on www.legislation.gov.uk. .
              I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

              Comment


                #8
                Originally posted by LandlordAngel View Post
                I read somewhere that grounds need to be mentioned.
                They do, but are you looking in the right place? Where you should be looking is the clause which sets out the circumstances in which the landlord can end the tenancy early. Such a clause does indeed need to specify the grounds (actually set out in section 7, not 8) if you wish to rely on them.

                The clause you quote cannot be classified as entirely satisfactory. That necessarily raises the possibility that some of the other provisions are not entirely satisfactory.

                Comment


                  #9
                  Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                  Ah, that'll be one of those tenancy agreements written by lefties who disagree with the whole concept of private letting.
                  More likely to have been drafted by someone after a quick buck.

                  Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                  Don't use it.
                  Good general advice for any legal precedent bought online unless from a recognised legal publisher.

                  For the price you pay for a tenancy agreement online you can buy a guide to letting which contains reliable precedents.

                  Comment


                    #10
                    Originally posted by theartfullodger View Post

                    What did you have against the **free** version from Dave??
                    It omits ground 7A. Rather perversely being the 2016 version, when ground 7A was added in 2015.
                    To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

                    Comment


                      #11
                      Considering how they've been adding grounds lately, the latest one no later than this month, I'm thinking that a good clause should indeed only refer to schedule 2 in general, if that's acceptable.

                      Comment


                        #12
                        Originally posted by jjlandlord View Post
                        Considering how they've been adding grounds lately, the last one no later than this month, I'm thinking that a good clause should indeed only refer to schedule 2 in general, if that's acceptable.
                        What's been added this month JJ? Is there an up to date list anywhere?
                        To save them chiming in, JPKeates, Theartfullodger, Boletus, Mindthegap, Macromia, Holy Cow & Ted.E.Bear think the opposite of me on almost every subject.

                        Comment


                          #13
                          Originally posted by JK0 View Post
                          What's been added this month JJ? Is there an up to date list anywhere?
                          Ground 7B: Secretary of State has given notice to landlord that one or more occupants do not have a "right to rent".

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