AST/Periodic Tenancy question.

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    #16
    O.K.I've spoken to the landlord and he's saying that it's the agents job to deal with things,going forward. So....I am planning to e-mail the lady who e-mailed me about the inspection and renewal and inform them officially,that I wish to go to a 'statutory periodic tenancy' and that I will decline to pay their £100 'fee' for doing so,as (as someone here has already said) a periodic tenancy arises by the operation of the law and that their is no need to raise any extra paperwork,to enable this.
    Now....the question is: Can the agent then issue a notice to quit,just because I won't pay them this 'spurious' £100,even though the rent will be paid up to date (as it always has been) ?? Can I legally 'force' them to accept a periodic tenancy,whether they like it or not ??

    * As a side note..... Would I be correct in believing that 'Lawcruncher' is actually a lawyer/solicitor or otherwise legally trained,please ??

    Comment


      #17
      Dunno Lawcruncher's background or qualifications but I respect his opinions and comments more highly than those of any members.

      You don't need to tell agent/landlord anything at all about going periodic. It will happen at the end of the fixed term and landlord/agent cannot prevent it.

      However, a landlord can end a tenancy for no reason at all ("section 21 notice"..) giving 2 months notice expiring any time after end fixed term. Then court decision: Then court order: Then bailiffs. (say 3-4 months of paperwork correct). But a logical, rational, sensible landlord doesn't evict a decent paying tenant: Sadly not all landlords (or agents, or tenants...) are logical, rational & sensible.

      Many landlords prefer to go periodic: All my non-student tenancies go periodic after initial 6 months & can go on for years..

      Good luck!
      I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

      Comment


        #18
        Hmmm......your 3rd para doesn't inspire confidence ! I'm trying to get to a definitive and clear position. If anyone starts playing silly buggers (most likely the agent),then it's going to be me at the losing end....... but hey,if it ends up going to court (even tho' I 've done nothing wrong),then I'll come out fighting.

        Would be good if Lawcruncher chipped in here.....

        Comment


          #19
          The agent can serve notice, but should only do so if the landlord agrees/proposes it.
          They shouldn't do that on their own initiative - but if they were to serve notice it would still be valid.

          If the expiry date of the notice passes and you don't leave (and you are actually under no obligation to do so) the landlord will have to go to court to proceed or hire a solicitor to represent them, the agent can't do that on their own.

          As theartfullodger says, it would be an odd thing to do to a paying tenant, though.

          The tenancy will become periodic if no one does anything. There really isn't any way to stop it other than signing a new agreement or leaving the property on the final date of the fixed period.
          When I post, I am expressing an opinion - feel free to disagree, I have been wrong before.
          Please don't act on my suggestions without checking with a grown-up (ideally some kind of expert).

          Comment


            #20
            Originally posted by Jayen4 View Post
            Hmmm......your 3rd para doesn't inspire confidence ! I'm trying to get to a definitive and clear position. If anyone starts playing silly buggers (most likely the agent),then it's going to be me at the losing end....... but hey,if it ends up going to court (even tho' I 've done nothing wrong),then I'll come out fighting.

            Would be good if Lawcruncher chipped in here.....
            Here I am!

            theartfullodger is right that an AST can be brought to an end without the landlord having to give a reason. Some agents manipulate things to their own advantage and if they have a Svengali like influence over the landlord there is not a lot a tenant can do about it.

            Comment


              #21
              You can't get a definitive and clear position on how someone might react.

              The fact is that you have security if you have a fixed term. The fact is you have flexibility, coupled with a distinct lack of security, if you are on a statutory periodic tenancy.

              Throughout this thread your main concern appeared to be avoidance of fees.

              If that's not your main concern, then pay the fee for a new fixed term.

              Comment


                #22
                Originally posted by Hippogriff View Post
                You can't get a definitive and clear position on how someone might react.

                The fact is that you have security if you have a fixed term. The fact is you have flexibility, coupled with a distinct lack of security, if you are on a statutory periodic tenancy.

                Throughout this thread your main concern appeared to be avoidance of fees.

                If that's not your main concern, then pay the fee for a new fixed term.
                2nd para.... I am quite aware of that.
                3rd para.......Incorrect !...my main concern (apart from flexibility) is to NOT be paying fees that are not,shall we say 'legitimate' ! As Lawcruncher has stated.....'There is no justification whatsoever....'. (see post 4 in this thread)

                Comment


                  #23
                  It doesn't matter.

                  You will have cut off your nose to spite your face if a Section 21 heads your way. That's what you can't predict, or stop from happening.

                  Comment


                    #24
                    Originally posted by Lawcruncher View Post
                    Here I am!

                    theartfullodger is right that an AST can be brought to an end without the landlord having to give a reason. Some agents manipulate things to their own advantage and if they have a Svengali like influence over the landlord there is not a lot a tenant can do about it.
                    Not really what I wanted to hear,but thanks anyway LC.....

                    Comment


                      #25
                      Originally posted by Hippogriff View Post
                      It doesn't matter.

                      You will have cut off your nose to spite your face if a Section 21 heads your way. That's what you can't predict, or stop from happening.
                      Would I be correct in thinking that one can be issued with a 'section 21' for any reason (or no reason) at any time,whether or not one is on an AST or a SPT ?? If so,it doesn't make any difference,does it ??

                      Comment


                        #26
                        Not so it takes effect during your fixed term.

                        AST and SPT are the same contract... AST morphs into SPT automatically with the same terms and conditions, apart from notice. You need a fixed term if security is your main consideration. If not, take your chances - go to SPT, refuse to pay a fee (that's absolutely your right) and risk the Agent influencing the Landlord to instruct them to evict you. You say you'll come out fighting, but you'll have nothing to fight with. It may not happen.

                        Comment


                          #27
                          Originally posted by Hippogriff View Post
                          Not so it takes effect during your fixed term.

                          AST and SPT are the same contract... AST morphs into SPT automatically with the same terms and conditions, apart from notice. You need a fixed term if security is your main consideration. If not, take your chances - go to SPT, refuse to pay a fee (that's absolutely your right) and risk the Agent influencing the Landlord to instruct them to evict you. You say you'll come out fighting, but you'll have nothing to fight with. It may not happen.

                          2 points...

                          Why would the agent issue a section 21 during the fixed term,given that the rent has been paid in full,on time,every time ??
                          and 2: What would the agents legal position be if they tried to have me evicted,simply because I'd refused to pay them an illegitimate 'fee' ??

                          Comment


                            #28
                            Originally posted by Jayen4 View Post
                            2 points...

                            Why would the agent issue a section 21 during the fixed term,given that the rent has been paid in full,on time,every time ??...
                            S21 cannot (roughly..) take effect before end of fixed term. So issuing it during fixed term allows court action to start, if desired, shortly after end of fixed term rather than waiting another 2 months....Landlord does not need a reason: He might simply want to sell the place & get a better sale with an empty place..
                            ...
                            and 2: What would the agents legal position be if they tried to have me evicted,simply because I'd refused to pay them an illegitimate 'fee' ??
                            S21 does not give a reason. You might guess why but never know...

                            The government has recently brought in anti-"revenge" evictions to cover s21s being issued shortly after tenants complain about repair problems (complicated process) but not when it's just "tenant didn't renew".

                            The agent can just issue notice. S21 does not end tenancy nor require tenant to leave. Only landlord can proceed with court action. There have been reports of agents issuing s21s without (apparently) landlord having any knowledge of it.

                            Perhaps England & Wales should follow Scotland's lead and abolish the (equivalent in scotland to..) s21.....

                            Sorry, life ain;t fair....

                            Many of us (I speak for myself - ..) wicked and evil capitalist landlords were younger once & rented and have been mucked about by landlords or agents: But in my case before Thatcher brought in s21.....Before then landlord need to cite grounds (eg rent arrears...)

                            Best wishes, hope landlord does the right thing..
                            I am legally unqualified: If you need to rely on advice check it with a suitable authority - eg a solicitor specialising in landlord/tenant law...

                            Comment


                              #29
                              There's no proof at all that they evicted you (not tried to evict you) because you refused to pay a fee.

                              The Section 21 would just survive on its own. It isn't defendable.

                              Why would they evict you at all? Possibly they think you're too much trouble. The Agent gets a slice of rent you pay. They'll make more from turnover of Tenants. They'll be charging a re-letting fee to the Landlord, application fees to the new Tenants - ker-ching. Don't be feeling too secure here. Realise what motivates people. Then work on that basis.

                              Comment


                                #30
                                What he said.

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