Section 21

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  • Section 21

    Ok I know Paul F is likely to shoot me down on this but I just want clarification on dates.

    My sister has just called to say her Landlday has called round with a notice to quit. It is dated 1st August to expire August 31st! She says in the new 3 month contract they signed after their 6 month one expired that one month is all the notice the Landlady has to give!

    So all of the above is incorrect, no 1 she has the dates wrong, she delivered it at 7pm on 2nd August therefore it does not come into force until 3rd August due tobe delivered outside office hours. no 2 she has only given one months notice instead of 2.

    My sister is 6 months pregnant and so would like to know the timescales she is looking at if the notice is re served correctly.

    Her Rent is paid 1st of every month, therefore the section 21 should expire the last day of the month, so am I right in thinking the date it should expire when served correctly is 31st October?? As her baby is due 20th October my sister is now looking to move elsewhere, I have told her to take as long as she likes as she has this long before the section expires and then court etc etc.... If my dates are wrong please correct me, these sections always have me confused! The only one I ever use are section 8s!!! I issue section 21s at teh start of AST's but as yet have not had to enforce them!!

    Many Thanks
    GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

    Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

  • #2
    I believe the 3 month contract is actually valid for 6 months, as thats the minimum.

    Comment


    • #3
      I think I am right in that once the initial 6 months AST has run out you can issue shorted AST's, you can issue shorter AST's but you cannot apply for possesion until 6 months. THe initial 6 months has expired and they were issued with a new 3 month agreement. Maybe someone can clarify either way :S
      GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

      Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

      Comment


      • #4
        Subject to Paul F's greater knowledge or any other board expert for that matter, I would state that although any AST can be issued for less than six months, a landlord cannot commence court proceedings for the issue of a possession order until six months after the AST has been issued provided that said AST is not for longer than six months. To do so, a section 21 notice must have been delivered at least two months before the six month period has ended, and to avoid confusion, Paul F has recently posted answers to his question time 3 post which has clarified how and when such a notice must be served to ensure that the necessary 2 months notice is given.

        P.P.
        Last edited by P.Pilcher; 02-08-2005, 21:53 PM. Reason: addition of word
        Any information given in this post is based on my personal experience as a landlord, what I have learned from this and other boards and elsewhere. It is not to be relied on. Definitive advice is only available from a Solicitor or other appropriately qualified person.

        Comment


        • #5
          P.Pilcher, thank you for your reply, I knwo about the thread and I have told my sister to look and give her landlady the addy too, I just wanted to clarify my dates were correct.

          As in my previous post I thought the section 21 only applied to the first term and not any subsequent terms, that being said, she can stay put until end of November before court proceedings can commence and that is subject to the section 21 being corretly issued! Either way though my sister needs security as her baby is due in less than 12 weeks.

          She is calling her landlady tomorrow so we will see how it goes!
          GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

          Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

          Comment


          • #6
            Seems pretty good advice to me!

            Originally posted by P.Pilcher
            Subject to Paul F's greater knowledge or any other board expert for that matter, I would state that although any AST can be issued for less than six months, a landlord cannot commence court proceedings for the issue of a possession order until six months after the AST has been issued provided that said AST is not for longer than six months. To do so, a section 21 notice must have been delivered at least two months before the six month period has ended, and to avoid confusion, Paul F has recently posted answers to his question time 3 post which has clarified how and when such a notice must be served to ensure that the necessary 2 months notice is given.

            P.P.
            I wouldn't disagree with any of the content of this post!
            The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by justaboutsane
              P.Pilcher, thank you for your reply, I knwo about the thread and I have told my sister to look and give her landlady the addy too, I just wanted to clarify my dates were correct.
              Your sister doesn't have to inform the landlady. The landlady should know how to serve a s21 correctly or change business. Let her find out the hard way.

              Comment


              • #8
                Thanks everyone for your responses, it looks as though my sister is safe until at least November 31st! My sister was looking to move soon anyway as they have a very small one bed house and need more room with the baby on the way!

                Zoe I take on board what you are saying! She should find out the hard way but until now everything has been fine! The landlady wants to sell up which is why she has asked her to leave, this is her first and only dabble in Buy to Let and she has probably not done her homework first! So if we can be a little bit helpful!
                GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

                Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Maybe I sounded harsh in saying let the landlady find out the hard way, I didn't mean to. However I stand by the fact that LLs should know what they are doing, this is a business and it affects people lives (tenants and landlords) so it is important to at least know the basics like s21. People don't open a restaurant when they don't know how to cook (well you'd hope so anyway).

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Sorry jennifer I thought Zoe had posted! maybe I will wake up soon!

                    Yes she should find out the hard way but with my sister being 6 months pregnant she wants to keep stress to a minimum! She is concerned about what may happen at the end of this month, if the woman changes the locks etc, which we know is illegal, then my sister has the worry of finding somewhere else to live and fast! Her partner works 5 minutes away and they need to stay in this area as it is difficult to get to on public transport and he does not drive. By letting the landlady know now we are hoping to avoid as many problems as we can call it damage limitation!

                    The landlady is saying that in the contract it states one month, as we know even if it did appear in the contract (which it does not!) It would still not be enforceable.

                    I had NO knowledge of property management when I started this job 3 years ago, everything I learned has been through the internet and experience! My boss has very little knowledge of property law and he has been a landlord for over 10 years! There are people out there who do not know and I think we should point them in the direction of forums like this.

                    While on the one hand I agree she should find out the hard way and on the other I think we need to help people become educated in these matters!
                    GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

                    Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Well well well! My sister called her landlady and told her she had taken advise! Told her that it should be 2 months no matter what the contract does or does not state. The landlady then became very sheepish and umm and ahh'd for a while! By the sounds of it she thought she could get one over on my sister! She has now said she will call the agency who introduced my sister to the tenancy, they have had no dealings whatsoever since my sister moved in. We will see what she comes back with then!
                      GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

                      Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Mmmmmmmm...........

                        I wouldn't be telling any landlord where they had gone wrong if I was the tenant; let them find out for themselves. I'd just have ignored the S.21 Notice, or if you really wanted to inform the landlord it was invalid you could have, but I wouldn't have expanded on the reason!
                        The advice I give should not be construed as a definitive answer, and is without prejudice or liability. You are advised to consult a specialist solicitor or other person of equal legal standing.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          It goes on!

                          The saga goes on! Yesterday my sister recieved a letter dated 8th August 2005 giving her 2 months notice to quit stating she has to be gone by 30th September!!! She has not got a clue! This woman needs a short sharp kick up the butt!

                          Luckily my sister has found a house to rent just around the corner, a lillte bigger for same rent... she won't be telling landlady just yet though! Their only concern is that she will withold any deposit from them but we will cross that bridge if we come to it!
                          GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

                          Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Tell your sister to offer the agent a deal, she will leave before 30th September providing she gets her deposit back on the day she moves out. The alternative is that they find out the hard way how long it takes to evict someone who isn't paying rent. Nothing to stop her moving to the new place either, just keep the present one looking occupied.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Council

                              Well, just wanted to update this! 30th September is fast upon us and my sister is still at the property, they have been turned down for several properties, some the letting agents have not bothered to tell them the place has been let and let them turn up and view the place!

                              My sister called the council today and have been told that they cannot rehouse her until she is issued a possession notice... and as the Landlady has yet to issue a valid Section 21 that will be at least another 2 months away if not more! Looks like the woman will not be able to apply to the courts until at least the end of the year! We have told my sister that if the woman calls to see them or turns up she is to call us and I will get to her and help her out.

                              We think there is a possibility that she may try and change the locks on 30th September... if she does we will be there!!
                              GOVERNMENT HEALTH WARNING: I am a woman and am therefore prone to episodes of PMT... if you don't like what I have to say you can jolly well put it in your pipe and SMOKE IT!!

                              Oh and on a serious note... I am NOT a Legal person and therefore anything I post could be complete and utter drivel... but its what I have learned in the University called Life!

                              Comment

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